What's It Take?

[piste off]

Where do you live? Your chances are very low if the answer (for foil) is not SF or NY (or other hotbed of fencing).

Rick

[Applesauce and Foils]

Texas

[Sabresque]

Phew--- you guys are pretty harsh, and I don't agree that he has no chance.

I know two very good foil fencers out of Texas who have made junior national teams.

Probably your first priority is to get to the best coach you can find. If the coaching is only mediocre, you will have to have a lot of personal drive and insight, and probably eventually leave in search of a new one. The dangers of teaching oneself are mostly highlighted by bad habits learned, and lack of good practice partners.

In your position I recommend conditioning, and an extreme will to win, good goal setting, and plenty of competition experience.

I believe that one can succeed (to varying levels) when not at the very top clubs if one is driven and smart.

You will also need the support of your parents or family, because you will have to fund trips to many national and eventually international tournaments.

If you are on your way to college, go to a school where you know there are top fencers AND coaches (either in Div. I programs or outside clubs). For foil these could include: schools in new york city, schools in san francisco, ohio state university, notre dame, penn state and possibly a couple others.

Good luck.

[eac]

23 in 2016 means 14-15 now. You have nine-ish years, and you're probably not a complete novice now, so it's possible. So you're not on your way to college; you probably just started high school. It is absolutely true that you need one of the top couple coaches in the country to have a chance. Texas has two strong clubs that I know of, Salle Mauro and Fencing Institute of Texas, which both have produced Cadet MF national team members. Mauro has a stated intention, as I recall from a news article a while ago, to produce Olympic fencers. This is a good sign; sufficient level of ambition in the coach is a necessary condition, because the coach is the one who has to say "I don't care! Keep going!" when you complain that your legs are going to give out and you would have stopped an hour ago if you were by yourself. So if you're not going to move to a coach, or travel frequently to a coach, Mauro is a good bet.

If you were going to travel, the clubs that contain or produced the current top Senior fencers are the Massialas Foundation in San Francisco, Empire United Fencing in NYC, and North Colorado Fencers club. Other strong clubs include Rochester, Fencer's club in NYC, Northwest Fencing Center, and Golden Gate Fencing Center in SF.

This is only judging on current and recent results, though. If you were to bet in January 2000 on who would produce the 2008 American MF Olympic representative, you wouldn't even have thought of the Massialas Foundation, because it hardly existed at the time, and was mostly composed of Y10 fencers. You'd have bet on Fencer's Club, probably, which now may not have a member of the Senior World team, let alone an Olympic person.

So it may very well be that the club that produces the best fencers in 2016 is only a fledgling club, or doesn't even exist yet, and thus it'll be hard to pick that one to start at. One reasonable strategy in the meantime, then, is to pick one that currently has the best fencers, and if you notice it starting to decline, jump ship to an up-and-coming one. The problem is that there is significant overhead to switching between clubs that have self-consistent but mutually conflicting systems, and it often means you have to go through a bunch of retraining.

Edit: This is going out on a bit of a limb, but I don't know all that many top fencers who have improved while fencing in the NCAA in college. You may want to pick your college to be near one of the above clubs, preferably the one you trained at to begin with, because you will definitely need those four years of improvement to have a chance.

[Applesauce and Foils]

Sabresque
Your encouragement was so timely! I was sinking, sinking. . .! Not that I don't think it'll be hard, I'm just glad to hear someone else doesn't think it's impossible. Thank you, thank you. Dedication, I have. I do love to train. Pretty much anything for fencing, I'll do it.

BTW, I've started running laps around my gravelly driveway.

AF

[whtouche]

Originally Posted by Durando

You can solve a lot of training problems instantly by leaving the U.S.

How so?

In any case, you have to ask yourself what your life will look like the day after the Olympics.

That's a pretty interesting and poignant point to make. Really puts things in perspective.

[Applesauce and Foils]

Yeah, there's no compensation is there? (Besides, of course, the experience, a medal, etc.)

AF

[ViewtifulMisho]

Ask Mike Momtselidze. Haha, just ribbing you, Mike.

[Warrior Princess]

Mine said 2016 would be cool for me, if I could just stop hurting myself, and concentrate better. And worked my ass off. Those are my bigest problems. That and the 'money wall'. I pay for all my own stuff, club fees, equipment, tournament and travel fees. It sucks.

[C.I.C.]

Originally Posted by Sabresque

Phew--- you guys are pretty harsh, and I don't agree that he has no chance.

Not harsh, just realistic.
- Selections for the 2012 teams are only a little over four years away.
- AF's public profile lists a classification of "U" in all three weapons.
How likely is it that AF will go from "U" to the top 4 or 5 ranked fencers in only four years?

Originally Posted by Sabresque

I know two very good foil fencers out of Texas who have made junior national teams.

As prestigious as it is, top four Junior and USFA Junior team is still not the same as making the National Olympic team.
And I'd propose that the members of the 2012 Olympic teams are already on the Junior (or even Cadet) USFA points standings, and all have been "A"s for a while.

Originally Posted by Sabresque

You will also need the support of your parents or family, because you will have to fund trips to many national and eventually international tournaments.

I'd suggest it's now impossible to reach a top 4 ranking without extensive international travel and, more critically, international successes.

Originally Posted by Sabresque

If you are on your way to college, go to a school where you know there are top fencers AND coaches (either in Div. I programs or outside clubs). For foil these could include: schools in new york city, schools in san francisco, ohio state university, notre dame, penn state and possibly a couple others.

If AF is close to starting college, and only a "U", it's already too late to make the 2012 teams.

As others here have said; don't hang your hopes on the Olympics, just take all the good advice you're being given, and work to be the best fencer you can; period. You'll still be amazed at how far you can go.
[

[Sabresque]

I have a feeling people just like putting down others because they can't have successes themselves.

Guys, applesauce was not asking whether or not its feasable that he/she maks teh team, she was asking what you need to do to make it.

Truthfully, the whole experience is about the journey. I believe that if you have the means, why not go for it. Even if Applesauce doesn't make the olympic team he will have put his feet forward to try something big, while many of his peers wouldn't think of it.

[Sabresque]

oh, and do lots of drills.

[Durando]

Originally Posted by whtouche

How so?



That's a pretty interesting and poignant point to make. Really puts things in perspective.

Well, living somewhere cheap and close to good fencing is the best way of getting enough competitive experience. Say Poland or Hungary. I think access to quality competitive bouting would be the fastest and surest way of beating out other Americans to make the Olympic squad. It is, of course, absolutely necessary should one want to have some kind of decent result at the games.

I don' t know about Poland or Hungary, but in France I have health coverage. I can see a sports doctor for free or damn near free. My fencing life as it is would be impossible in the U.S. Health insurance means a regular job and a regular job means (for me) irregular fencing.

[C.I.C.]

Originally Posted by Sabresque

Guys, applesauce was not asking whether or not its feasable that he/she maks teh team, she was asking what you need to do to make it.

You need to re-read AF's initial post.
"For those of us average fencers, (yes, me) who want to get there, in say 2012 or 2016, what will it take?"

Seems pretty clear to me.

[Warrior Princess]

Originally Posted by Sabresque

oh, and do lots of drills.

And conditioning. Lots of conditioning. I'm a bear for conditioning.

[Applesauce and Foils]

Originally Posted by C.I.C.

You need to re-read AF's initial post.
"For those of us average fencers, (yes, me) who want to get there, in say 2012 or 2016, what will it take?"

Seems pretty clear to me.

Well, since I can't go back and start training earlier, what I'm asking is what I need to be doing now. Telling me it's not likely, or how many other people are already on the team isn't particularly helpful.

Now, I'm not arguing the points anyone has made so far, there's a lot of truth to them. But since those are things that I can't change, (age, country, etc.) I can't take anything away from those types of comments.

In other words, I don't need people to coddle me but I also don't need people telling me I can't do it. Neither is useful.


So I guess I'll clarify my own post.

For those of you who are trying to get to the Olympics, (or other high ranking event, World Cup, etc.) what are you doing to get there?

[jkdjeff]

Setting high goals for yourself is great, as long as you realize that they are high goals, and that there is a pretty decent chance that you won't reach them.

To give you context, I'm 33 years old and just started fencing last October. I would LOVE to be in a position to fence at the Olympic level, but I am realistic about the fact that it's not ever likely to happen.

What might be more helpful to you, and better for your psyche, is starting with a smaller and more attainable goal, and continue to set aggressive new goals for yourself as you make previous ones.

To again use myself as an example, I'm fencing my first "real" tournament next weekend, and it is a fairly large regional tournament. My goal, considering the size of the event and the likely level of competition, compared to my own? Is to not finish dead last.

If I make that goal, maybe next time I'll shoot for finishing in the top half. And so on and so forth, for subsequent tournaments.

One of the hazards of shooting for the very top too early on, is that it takes a LOT of work to get there, and thus progress towards that goal is always going to be slow.

Goals are only really useful if they help motivate you to train harder, and if you can't see significant measurable progress against your goals, it's easy to lose their motivational oomph.

[Applesauce and Foils]

Yeah, I think you're definitely right. I am also trying to focus on the, the. . . short term goals is wrong but, on the process? Like, fencing in the Olympics is the ultimate dream, but my goal this year is to do well at local competitions.

AF

[lefty_monster]

Originally Posted by Applesauce and Foils

For those of you who are trying to get to the Olympics, (or other high ranking event, World Cup, etc.) what are you doing to get there?

Training my arse off. And having the time of my life. Both are important. Train and train. Condition, take lessons, and work on your competitive bouting. Go to tournaments. But have FUN.

And jeff is right. You need smaller goals also.

[sleepyweasle]

Hey - give the kid a break! My kid STARTED fencing at 13 1/2 so was obviously a U at 14 (she earned her E almost exactly 1 yr after taking up her weapon). 4 years later, with dedication, hard work (and - sorry to say a switch in coaching to one of the afore mentioned clubs) she has her A and is on the senior and junior points list. Her goal is the 2012 Olympics. No reason to assume that the 2016 Olympics are out of reach for someone with talent and drive (but proper coaching IS very important!). If you have the money - go to as many NACs as possible. the more you go to - the more chances to earn ratings and points. the more you earn - the better your seeding and the better your chances of continuing to earn ratings/points.