Southeastern "personal" problem

[Squall_Leonhart]

Wasn't quite sure how to phrase the thread's title. Anyway, patience to read the tragic story would be appreciated.
I did a askfred search of sabre tournaments so I could keep sharp over winter break, and I recall only 1 B2 rated mixed sabre. And that was in Tenessee, if I'm not mistaken. Now, while I do have the option of fencing there, you're asking someone who doesn't have an income (and I believe a great number of fencers are still income dependents), and for someone to travel far away. Everyone knows that traveling can cost A LOT. There were plenty of sabre tournaments on askfred for everyone in state, but I just don't think there are enough women who do sabre, or to a certain extent, fencing in general in the southeast. I'm not demanding for a solution here, just pointing out the problem.
Fencing clubs inevitably have the tendency of creating clustered communities, and it doesn't help that colleges tend to draw the most talented fencers, but they often don't help the college town's fencing competitiveness. Am I wrong? Of course, they all disappear when it's the end of the semester, and who's left to fence locally? The locals.

And on that note, I believe the highest rated women's sabreur in our state is a C. Or maybe there's a B or A floating around I never had the fortune of meeting/fencing. The ladies I know are all competitive,collegiate, and at NACs, we tend to place higher than other fencers who have our same rating. I believe this is because we're fortunate enough to fence a lot of very good fencers in the NCAA circuit, but this still doesn't solve the problem of bringing in higher ratings to the SE.
Am I over blowing the issue?

I understand I can't be Rosie the Riveter and increase fencing activity immediately, but it would be nice if there was a better indicator of how skilled fencers are despite being faced with the problem of geographical isolation....

[mytouch2003]

Hm, interesting topic. I too fence in the SE division and have discovered that there are some decent tournaments. Although I do only go to 1-2 tournaments during the academic year (one of those college students) most of the foil tournaments are at least "C" rated and more likely "B" rated. Now in terms of saber I know that NCDP out of Chapel Hill hosts saber tournaments monthly, whether or not they are mixed I do not know, but they are consistently "A" rated. There are a couple "A" saber fencers at UNC that routinely show up and place in the top 8, allowing 2-4 to earn a "B" and the winner an "A". So check out that option. I do agree that more college fencers should fence locally though.

[tbryan]

Originally Posted by Squall_Leonhart

Wasn't quite sure how to phrase the thread's title. Anyway, patience to read the tragic story would be appreciated.

I read the post. I'm still not sure what point you're trying to discuss.

Originally Posted by Squall_Leonhart

I did a askfred search of sabre tournaments so I could keep sharp over winter break, and I recall only 1 B2 rated mixed sabre.

That looks like you're staying that there aren't enough strong sabre tournaments in the southeast section, especially in our area.

Originally Posted by Squall_Leonhart

There were plenty of sabre tournaments on askfred for everyone in state, but I just don't think there are enough women who do sabre, or to a certain extent, fencing in general in the southeast. I'm not demanding for a solution here, just pointing out the problem.

That looks like you're talking about your dissatisfaction with the level and/or size of the fencing population in the southeast section.

Originally Posted by Squall_Leonhart

Fencing clubs inevitably have the tendency of creating clustered communities, and it doesn't help that colleges tend to draw the most talented fencers, but they often don't help the college town's fencing competitiveness.

Now, it looks like you're talking about how some fencers don't travel out of their own club to local tournaments or how strong NCAA programs don't necessarily help raise the level of the local USFA fencing opens since the NCAA fencers frequently don't fence in local opens.

Originally Posted by Squall_Leonhart

Am I wrong?

About what? There are interesting things to discuss, but it helps if you clearly identify one issue for the thread. Of course, once you pick one topic, f.net thread drift will usually occur within the first 20 replies or so.

Originally Posted by Squall_Leonhart

Of course, they all disappear when it's the end of the semester, and who's left to fence locally? The locals.

Now it looks like you're saying that fencers with strong NCAA programs in a region with sparse or weak fencing will have trouble finding interesting local tournaments to attend.

Originally Posted by Squall_Leonhart

And on that note, I believe the highest rated women's sabreur in our state....

Now you're lamenting the lack of strong women's fencing in the region.

Originally Posted by Squall_Leonhart

the ladies I know are all competitive, collegiate, and at NACs, we tend to place higher than other fencers who have our same rating. I believe this is because we're fortunate enough to fence a lot of very good fencers in the NCAA circuit, but this still doesn't solve the problem of bringing in higher ratings to the SE.

Now it looks like you're discussing the general problem that NCAA fencers are better than their USFA rating would indicate. That's because they gain a lot of experience fencing at strong NCAA events where they cannot earn ratings. In my experience, when these fencers show up at local events, they place higher than those with the same rating, and they quickly earn a rating comparable to their skill level in local tournaments. Of course, that requires them to fence at local events, and it requires the events to be strong enough for them to gain a rating. (For example, if you're as good as an A, but you're rated as a C, and the only local events are D-rated, you're stuck.)

Originally Posted by Squall_Leonhart

Am I over blowing the issue?

Which one? Really, there are a lot of fine topics for discussion here, but I have no idea which one you want to talk about.

[tbryan]

Originally Posted by Squall_Leonhart

I did a askfred search of sabre tournaments so I could keep sharp over winter break,

If you just want to keep sharp, then most of the topics I highlighted from your previous message aren't really relevant. Looking at askFred.net for strong sabre tournaments often won't work. To find good local tournaments, you have to know the local fencing scene. I don't fence sabre, but I can tell you that sabre is generally strong (C-rated to A-rated events):

1) at NCFDP when your team fences the opens in September/October.
2) at Nellya in Atlanta.
3) at historically-strong regional opens.

Item 1 doesn't help you. That helps the rest of the fencers in the state when your team hosts the events.

Item 2 doesn't offer you anything until Jan. 27: Nellya Saber Joust. They already have 3 Bs registered for the open saber event.

Item 3 should be exactly what you wanted: Hangover Classic Open in Richmond, VA. It's only a couple of hours away. Pre-registration is really small right now, but historically, the open saber event has been fairly strong.

There is also a C-and-under in Charlottesville, VA this weekend. The pre-registration for that event is probably pretty accurate at this point.

Finally, the Coxes have just opened a Mid South Fencers Club location in Durham, NC. They are having a grand opening tournament the same weekend as the Hangover in Richmond.

Happy fencing!

[bigdawg2121]

Now now Tom, the "Grand Open" for Mid-South has been moved to Feb. 23 I believe. That being said, the rest of your ideas are pretty solid as far as staying sharp:

1) Fence at the Charlottesville Tourney (there should be 2-3 bouts there for you at least)

2) Fence the Hangover. Excellent call. I might actually end up doing it myself even though it's over the designated beginning of the semester party weekend.

also:
3) Find some open suitable space and figure out which teammates are still in town. Then whack away at each other.

P.S. given that the Mid South Open no longer conflicts with Hangover, everyone* should come and make it the biggest tournament in NC.**


*At least everyone in the Southeast and that isn't traveling that weekend for an NCAA event.
**For the sake of fencing and promoting it. I don't care about anyone's political/personal issues. Seriously.

[mytouch2003]

I am not aware of any personal or political reasons for not attending any tournament, especially the mid south fencer's open. That being said, $30 is a hefty amount to pay for one open event, especially when the club is trying to attract local fencers to its first big event.

[tbryan]

Originally Posted by bigdawg2121

Now now Tom, the "Grand Open" for Mid-South has been moved to Feb. 23 I believe.

Doh!

And I even linked to the askFred page that shows Feb. 23. Last I heard from Matt, it was still scheduled for Jan 5-6, so I didn't really look at the dates. Thanks for the update.

Then again, I may actually be able to fence it now.

Originally Posted by bigdawg2121

the rest of your ideas are pretty solid as far as staying sharp

Thanks. I was actually more interested in hearing some discussing on one or more of the other topics Squall_Leonhart seemed to be raising.

Originally Posted by bigdawg2121

2) Fence the Hangover. Excellent call. I might actually end up doing it myself

Please. Brad has won the saber for at least the last three years in a row. Bring some of the crew up from UNC so that we can see someone else's name at the top!

[peet]

Originally Posted by tbryan

Of course, once you pick one topic, f.net thread drift will usually occur within the first 2 replies or so.

Fixed that for you.

-p

[bigdawg2121]

Originally Posted by mytouch2003

I am not aware of any personal or political reasons for not attending any tournament, especially the mid south fencer's open. That being said, $30 is a hefty amount to pay for one open event, especially when the club is trying to attract local fencers to its first big event.

Eh, you just haven't been around long enough. I also don't think you really go to enough tournaments locally to be able to divine them through observation, but they're there. Also, yes, I agree with you that $30 is a lot for one open event. As a college student especially, I don't really like spending $30 on anything and never all at the same time if I can help it

I think that the idea though is that they're providing a new facility that's supposed to be very nice, and actually paying dedicated, rated referees. The last part almost never happens around here. You may get dedicated refs. You may get rated refs. You rarely get both, and usually when you do you're rarely going to see many above a 6. The club is also not all that new, and the owners aren't exactly strangers in the fencing scene. As such they're not really restricted by the whole "new club" thing that might make some people want to charge almost nothing for the sake of promoting the club...

Food for thought perhaps. I'm pretty sure I'm traveling that weekend anyway though.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by tbryan

Please. Brad has won the saber for at least the last three years in a row. Bring some of the crew up from UNC so that we can see someone else's name at the top!

Mmmmm, 2 round-trips over the NAC weekend helped remind me just how far driving down there and back can feel. Normally I have a year off to forget between.

I'm still trying to figure out whether I'll come down this year.

-B

[Squall_Leonhart]

NCFDP is not open during the winter break.
NCFDP's tournaments are largely fenced by us, when I say us, UNC fencers. The ratings are often promoted by UNC fencers alone. And by that, it's A rated because it's either mixed, or only for men. Men tend to win mixed tournaments. This still does not solve the ratings issue and the number of women who fence saber in the southeast. It's hard to sign up for a tournament when the only women who are going to be in your pool are the same people you fence and practice with every day.
The people who are As in these sabre tournaments are on the team. Most of the Bs who fence at the sabre NCFDP tournaments all have their homes out of state. A certain collegiate fencer also graces us with his presence by flying in nearly ever weekend when there's a NCFDP tournament in saber, but that still doesn't solve the problem with us, women people.
I don't mind fencing men competitively, it's a different style. In the end, I think it more efficient to fence other women as that's who we fence at dual meets for NCAA, NACs and JOs.
tbryan- There is no one point in the thread discussion. They all affect each other, so that's why I wrote them out. To have five different threads all pointing on the same overall effect is annoying for most people, if I'm not mistaken. I apologize for the bombardment of all these issues rolled into one hefty ball.
As for your point about NCAA fencers being better fencers than their USFA ratings indicate, I say it is mostly true. The problem with it is that a number of fencers do not advance to their "actual" ratings because if you're like me, you fence the same people you practice with, and if they're a better fencer than you, it doesn't matter how better you are than fencers you normally don't fence, as your rating is determined by the fencer you do fence.

I suppose what I need to happen is become a millionaire so I can travel to competitions and bring new ratings to the area. Then I will have a machine that will magically spawn interest into people so they will fence. Problems solved.

The mid-south fencer's tournament will have good competition, but in that situation, I will be fencing the same fencers I fence at club during the school year, and for three times the amount I pay at the NCFDP tournaments.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by Squall_Leonhart

It's hard to sign up for a tournament when the only women who are going to be in your pool are the same people you fence and practice with every day.

Apparently it's even harder to sign up for a tournament where the women AREN'T the same people you fence and practice with every day... :)

-B

[bigdawg2121]

Also unmentioned is the option to just say "screw ratings" and go fence at Nellya in the ATL for a few days. Plenty of women. They're pretty much all good. They're more or less home for the holidays I'd imagine. Plus you can spend some time fencing in the ATL and call the next NAC your own personal home meet

[AndrewH]

Originally Posted by Squall_Leonhart

A certain collegiate fencer also graces us with his presence by flying in nearly ever weekend when there's a NCFDP tournament in saber

Haha only one person THAT could be...