It Happened Today. $1M.

[noodle]

i was expecting some sort of VC post about fred
way to raise my hopes, peet!

[KD5MDK]

Actually, me too, for rumor related reasons.

[peet]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Actually, me too, for rumor related reasons.

uummm.....

Anything I should know about?

[peet]

Originally Posted by noodle

i was expecting some sort of VC post about fred
way to raise my hopes, peet!

If only!

Unfortunately, FRED doens't have the business model to attract VC like that. While $1M have passed through his account, precious few of them have stayed...


-p

[swordsen]

Well, as much as I hate to kill a good thing perhaps you should start making money off it. People are addicted now......

[noodle]

Originally Posted by peet

If only!

Unfortunately, FRED doens't have the business model to attract VC like that. While $1M have passed through his account, precious few of them have stayed...


-p

i bet all you need is a revamp to the business model ;p

[peet]

Originally Posted by swordsen

Well, as much as I hate to kill a good thing perhaps you should start making money off it. People are addicted now......

Originally Posted by noodle

i bet all you need is a revamp to the business model ;p

FRED does actually turn a modest profit, but certainly not enough to quit the day job. I certainly could alter the business model to make it more profitable, but I'm not sure how to do that without slowing growth in usage. My focus has always been to have as much information in FRED as possible, so I wouldn't want to do anything that discouraged people from using the system.

Some folks have suggested I charge tournament organizers to list tournaments, but that's exactly the kind of thing that I fear would discourage usage.

Anyone with creative suggestions about this stuff is free to PM or email me!

-p

[Soberin]

Originally Posted by peet

FRED does actually turn a modest profit, but certainly not enough to quit the day job. I certainly could alter the business model to make it more profitable, but I'm not sure how to do that without slowing growth in usage. My focus has always been to have as much information in FRED as possible, so I wouldn't want to do anything that discouraged people from using the system.

Some folks have suggested I charge tournament organizers to list tournaments, but that's exactly the kind of thing that I fear would discourage usage.

Anyone with creative suggestions about this stuff is free to PM or email me!

-p

?

A couple of things are clear to me, even though I am a novice at business.

1. The fencing community is small
2. FRED has become the standard
3. There will likely not be a competing online service any time soon, if ever
4. Most local and regional events including even "national youth" events such as RYCs and SYCs are dependent on FRED
5. You should charge more for your service. Either a small fee to list the events, which I doubt would decrease use of the system as there is no easy alternative, and/or take a bigger cut from the total entry fee. I don't know what you do now.
6. Small increases in number 5 above will translate into larger $$ for you, with little effect on the individual fencer--perhaps a $5 increase in entry fee passed along to the fencer. Given the cost of lessons, fuel, equipment would it reduce entries and kill FRED? What do you think?

[dberke]

As a tournament organizer (and, disclaimer: a good friend of Peet's) I would be more than willing to pay a fee to list my events. I don't think the fencers should be charged for the service since it's the organizers that benefit from its use the most in terms of being able to plan for the numbers properly.

Perhaps a fair way to charge for listing a tournament on FRED would be somewhat akin to how ebay does things: A modest "insertion fee" for posting the event and then an additional fee based on how large the pre-registration list gets. That way, small events that bring in little money don't pay much, while people who run events with lots of fencers pay more since they should be bringing in a lot more money.

Dan

[KD5MDK]

One worry I'd have is that it's frequently hard for clubs to pay people outside of writing them a check (or worse, handing them cash), so it will likely fall onto an individual to pay for the listing, and then get reimbursed, which may be more hassle than they're inclined to go through.

[Welted 24/7]

Just from my own individual experience, I know I've gone to WAY more tournaments since Fred came around than I used to. So, a very sincere thank you to Peet for creating it and letting people in tiny little bumble-**** divisions like me know where I can go to fence.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by dberke

I don't think the fencers should be charged for the service since it's the organizers that benefit from its use the most in terms of being able to plan for the numbers properly.

While I certainly agree that organizers benefit immensely from Fred, fencers certainly do as well. Until very recently, I was much more likely to learn about another event in-state from Fred than what passed for communication among the three Divisions down here...

[peet]

One thing I sometimes think about doing is offering some kind of "premium" services which FRED could charge for, and leave the existing services free. I'd make up two packages of features, one for tournament organizers, and one for fencers. Maybe a yearly subscription for the fencers, and a per-tournament fee, or maybe a percentage of entry fees for organizers.

That way there would be no disincentive to use the system, rather an incentive to use it more fully (at a cost).

-p

[peet]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

One worry I'd have is that it's frequently hard for clubs to pay people outside of writing them a check (or worse, handing them cash), so it will likely fall onto an individual to pay for the listing, and then get reimbursed, which may be more hassle than they're inclined to go through.

I hadn't thought of that.

One way around that would be to charge for a premium tournament hosting service (as mentioned above), and offer it only to tournaments that use FRED to accept registration fees. That way FRED could just take his $ out of the fees, and no funds would have to go from the organizer to FRED.

-p

[peet]

Originally Posted by Welted 24/7

Just from my own individual experience, I know I've gone to WAY more tournaments since Fred came around than I used to. So, a very sincere thank you to Peet for creating it and letting people in tiny little bumble-**** divisions like me know where I can go to fence.

That's really great to hear. This is of course the original and still the main purpose of FRED, and it comes (way) before making money in my list of priorities for FRED.

I'm really happy to have made a contribution to the sport that i've gotten so much out of myself.

[/sappyness]


I'm sure it's true that a small charge for listing tournaments wouldn't discourage very many organizers, but if even a small number were discouraged, the effect Welted describes would diminish. I really don't want that.

-p

[KD5MDK]

I would suggest charging an extra convenience fee for accepting prepayment. Most people I know who are requiring prepayment do so to aid in their planning for strips and referees, so I think they'd be willing to accept an extra fee for the benefit received.

[bunbury]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I would suggest charging an extra convenience fee for accepting prepayment. Most people I know who are requiring prepayment do so to aid in their planning for strips and referees, so I think they'd be willing to accept an extra fee for the benefit received.

Pay a fee online, or spend 2 minutes and snail-mail/fax it... hmmm...

(well, it's America: we'll pay the fee.)

[fencerbill]

Who could argue against a fee equal to first class postage?

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

Who could argue against a fee equal to first class postage?

Those that like to fax things... :)

-B

[peet]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I would suggest charging an extra convenience fee for accepting prepayment. Most people I know who are requiring prepayment do so to aid in their planning for strips and referees, so I think they'd be willing to accept an extra fee for the benefit received.

This one I can totally get behind. In fact, the "convenience fee" for online payment is probably going to go up soon, from the $0.50 it is now to something more like $0.99 in order to pay for the bookkeeper I'm going to be hiring to handle money things. It should leave some profit for FRED as well.

-p