Returning to Fencing after Six Years Off

[Matt]

Hi All,

So it's been about six years since I last fenced but I've finally got the time and inclination to get back into fencing, which I am very excited about. Unfortunately, I feel a bit out-of-the-loop as to what's happened in fencing over the last six years. What kind of rules-changes have happened? New equipment requirements? At least one inquiring mind wants to know.

Thanks,

Matt

[Grasshopper]

Nothing major, just:

saberists can't flesh, attacks from angles greater than 135deg don't count, you gotta get a bubble plexiglass mask, foilists can't flick, you need a new score box with new timings, foil has become epee, epee is still dumb, you can turn your shoulder in foil, but you can't mask block, you will need a new metallic bib for foil, men's ind. foil is not in the olympics this year, women fence saber now, saberists are still barbarians, and the current US Champion is from the SCA. (OK, I made the last one up.)

Oh, yeah and "Dan Kellner" has not become a household word. "Household" has become a Dan Kellner word.

[FoilyDeath]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Nothing major, just:

saberists can't flesh, attacks from angles greater than 135deg don't count, you gotta get a bubble plexiglass mask, foilists can't flick, you need a new score box with new timings, foil has become epee, epee is still dumb, you can turn your shoulder in foil, but you can't mask block, you will need a new metallic bib for foil, men's ind. foil is not in the olympics this year, women fence saber now, saberists are still barbarians, and the current US Champion is from the SCA. (OK, I made the last one up.)

Oh, yeah and "Dan Kellner" has not become a household word. "Household" has become a Dan Kellner word.

That kind of covers it. Sorry, but I still find the lack of men's team foil outrageous...

[KD5MDK]

Are you sure it isn't MFT and WET they've dropped from the Olympics? We still get 10 events...

[CvilleFencer]

Wow, let's see here. Thinking specifically for foil:

The timing changes are the major thing. Lockout time has been reduced and debounce time is now around 15ms (the time the tip has to be depressed) meaning that flicks, or even straight shots that hit and skip on a hard surface don't always register. As such the flick has become less prevalent and deep flicks to the back are much more rare. Also flat chest plates for men (and women) have become much more popular as even straights shots can bounce off. Also there is a lot more wiggling, counter attacks and remise work being done on the strip these days.

Reversing the shoulders is no longer an offense (although you still can't cover target) and this helps encourage the wiggling.

Covering target with the mask (IE mask parry, since the point will skip off without a light) is more strictly enforced but also much more common as a tactic.

Some lames (French cut crotch) are considered illegal at most NACs and some local events.

There have been some slight changes to qualifing paths for Summer Nationals and some changes to the cut/pools for some events/category's. Also there have been some changes to the ratings award chart for all events.

Coming up, in 08 visor masks will be required for top level international tourneys so expect to see that trickle down to the local level. Also in 09 the bib becomes target in foil, although details on the new bib design and who all will adopt what when has yet to be worked out.

That's what come to the top of my head for about the past 5-6 years. I am sure there are things I am missing though. It has been a rather busy time for the FIE...

[Grasshopper]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Are you sure it isn't MFT and WET they've dropped from the Olympics? We still get 10 events...

Yeah, that's what I meant.

[theLuz]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Nothing major, just:

saberists can't flesh, attacks from angles greater than 135deg don't count, you gotta get a bubble plexiglass mask, foilists can't flick, you need a new score box with new timings, foil has become epee, epee is still dumb, you can turn your shoulder in foil, but you can't mask block, you will need a new metallic bib for foil, men's ind. foil is not in the olympics this year, women fence saber now, saberists are still barbarians, and the current US Champion is from the SCA. (OK, I made the last one up.)

Oh, yeah and "Dan Kellner" has not become a household word. "Household" has become a Dan Kellner word.

Ok, that's funny. I don't care who you are: that's funny

I wish it weren't true: I miss foil

[samster]

I'm back after about 23 years. I don't think much has changed except for

1) higher prices,
2)electric sabers,
3) a lot fewer French grips, and
4) a lot more flicking.

And the shoes have gotten better.

Ciao!

-Sam

[theLuz]

Originally Posted by samster

I'm back after about 23 years. I don't think much has changed except for

1) higher prices,
2)electric sabers,
3) a lot fewer French grips, and
4) a lot more flicking.

And the shoes have gotten better.

Ciao!

-Sam

Sammy,
Where are you? I'm looking for old guys to fence. I'm assuming you don't fence foil with the new timing, as it does change the weapon and fencing to be more like "epee light". If I wanted a lottery, I'd buy a ticket. I'd rather fence foil.

Also, I discovered, if I can't cross my feet, I can't fence saber. I still need the exercise, though.

[samster]

Originally Posted by theLuz

Sammy,
Where are you? I'm looking for old guys to fence. I'm assuming you don't fence foil with the new timing, as it does change the weapon and fencing to be more like "epee light". If I wanted a lottery, I'd buy a ticket. I'd rather fence foil.

Also, I discovered, if I can't cross my feet, I can't fence saber. I still need the exercise, though.

I'm in St. Louis, MO. I fence foil with whatever the machine is set to do (meaning I really don't know). But I like it better than saber (which I did in high school back in mesozoic era). Where are you located?

[theLuz]

Originally Posted by samster

Where are you located?

I'm in the L.A. area. I have to drive an hour to get some decent fencing. I prefer foil, too. If I could find an old coot to fence with up here, I'd buy a machine and reels and we could fence in my athletic club. St. Lois is too far for me to drive, though.

[Matt]

Thank you all for the feedback, it helps out a lot. I do have one question, though:

Originally Posted by CvilleFencer

Wow, let's see here. Thinking specifically for foil:

The timing changes are the major thing. Lockout time has been reduced and debounce time is now around 15ms (the time the tip has to be depressed) meaning that flicks, or even straight shots that hit and skip on a hard surface don't always register. As such the flick has become less prevalent and deep flicks to the back are much more rare. Also flat chest plates for men (and women) have become much more popular as even straights shots can bounce off. Also there is a lot more wiggling, counter attacks and remise work being done on the strip these days.

When I was last active in fencing there was lots of talk about redesigning the foil points to cut down on flicks. Do I need to replace the old points on my weapons because of these changes?

Thanks,

Matt

[KD5MDK]

Nope.

[theLuz]

Originally Posted by Matt

Thank you all for the feedback, it helps out a lot. I do have one question, though:



When I was last active in fencing there was lots of talk about redesigning the foil points to cut down on flicks. Do I need to replace the old points on my weapons because of these changes?

Thanks,

Matt

Instead of changing the point, they changed the timing of the machines to make it harder to flick. It's still possible, but the game is more like epee now. Not a good change. Still good exercise.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by theLuz

Ok, that's funny. I don't care who you are: that's funny

Hmph. It is NOT funny. Mostly because I didn't say it first.

Speaking of the SCA, though, I was watching a Veteran epeeist in Richmond ( I think my blood sugar was low enough at the time to enable me to see things happening at such low speed ). The one fellow was walking from one side of the strip to the other, in addition to the usual back-and-forth movement. Not shifting, not sidling, not crabbing---walking. Like in Spanish rapier. And of course posting with a French grip. Still, it wasn't until he took off his mask to reveal a coif worn underneath that the SCA conncection became unmistakeable...

And I thought bandanas looked

[VELISARIOS]

Wellcome back.