Disruptive Behavior?

[justasking]

From this I understand that halt had not been called.



From this I understand that halt had been called.



My humble opinion of the incident would hinge on which version occurred in the universe in which we currently reside. I rarely comment on events in other, parallel, realities.

The action had stopped. The carded fencer had retreated momentarily to the end of the strip when he addressed the audience, before walking back to the en garde position. If the fencer was deliberately attempting to disrupt the bout and gain unfair advantage over his opponent, I could understand the ref's position. Perhaps I was still recovering from a bell punch in an earlier bout and as such I invite comments from others who witnessed this alleged miscarriage of justice.

[Cry_Me_A_River]

What event did this happen at?

[HDG]

we can't be sure whether it was carded as a Group 1 (yellow card, turned to red due to the preceding penalty) or as a Group 3 offense (red card).

Should've been indicated on the pool / DE sheet.

[Goldgar]

Should've been indicated on the pool / DE sheet.

Right, but I don't have those records, and I don't know if they still exist.

[rsy]

Now I've heard the referee's side of the story. It differs significantly from the circumstances originally posted.

1. It was not during a halt. It was during active fencing (though the fencers were momentarily separated).

2. The fencers were not at opposite ends of the strip. They were at about double-advance-lunge distance.

3. The offending fencer then addressed the audience, enjoining them to "make some noise", as originally described.

4. The referee perceived that the opponent was about to launch an attack, and this intention was disrupted by the offender's outburst.

5. So the referee gave him a yellow card, not a red card as originally described.

According to these circumstances, I think the referee acted appropriately.

Dirk got the low down before I did, and this is substantially what I heard from eyewitnesses, although I am not sure if it was a red or a yellow. Also, I communicated with those who would normally be in a position to speak up and defend the fencer if he had been improperly carded and they do not dispute the validity of the ref's call, (which is not the same thing as saying that they thought the card should have been thrown).

-r

[notalent]

Hmm I guess the carded fencer should be happy that it was unsportsman like conduct

[dadofbag]

I was at the bout. I am not a competitive fencer nor do I pretend to be familiar with USFA rules. I heard the comment to the audience and I saw the ref produce a red card.

I discussed the call after the bout with two other parents who were present and none of us understood it. It all seemed quite harmless, especially as the two fencers knew each other well and fence at the same club. I would say the call was well "over the top", but it was at the ref's discretion.

I would say that such calls to younger fencers are not designed to encourage longevity and enjoyment of the sport, but rather to assert authority and control.

[catwood1]

I was at the bout. I am not a competitive fencer nor do I pretend to be familiar with USFA rules. I heard the comment to the audience and I saw the ref produce a red card.

I discussed the call after the bout with two other parents who were present and none of us understood it. It all seemed quite harmless, especially as the two fencers knew each other well and fence at the same club. I would say the call was well "over the top", but it was at the ref's discretion.

I would say that such calls to younger fencers are not designed to encourage longevity and enjoyment of the sport, but rather to assert authority and control.

I disagree. (I am going with the account that it was during the fencing) It is the ref's choice over whether or not the throw the card, but it wasn't over the top. I can understand both points of view. Personally, I would never throw the card there for the first offense. Call halt, tell them not to do it again, and replace them engarde. If it happens again, then its a card.

The fact that they could be friends or teammates should NOT be taken into account. Just because two fencers know each other and like each other as people should never affect the way a ref maintains order on the strip.

Many times I, as a referee, have had one fencer nearly score a touch but just barely miss, then retreat out of distance and smile and chuckle and even say something like "man you're lucky" and had the other fencer respond with "phew, ur right, that was wayyyy to close." All of this being said in a happy joking tone, when the fencers are just having fun. I still call halt (no cards) but tell them that there is no conversing allowed during the actual fencing.

Being friendly with your opponent should not be reason for the rules to be enforced differently.

just my .02.

[dadofbag]

Mentioning the friendly relationship between the fencers was purely intended to show that there was no malice involved.

[jeff]

Since it now seems that the verbal activity occurred during fencing, I think this a valuable lesson for the fencer to learn before traveling to a NAC and losing an important touch in a national venue. There, for certain they don't care who are friends. It is not smart to be verbal (or funny or a wiseguy) on the strip, especially between "Fence!" and "Halt!".

[Goldgar]

It is not smart to be verbal (or funny or a wiseguy) on the strip, especially between "Fence!" and "Halt!".

It's okay to be primal, though.

[dadofbag]

Since it now seems that the verbal activity occurred during fencing, I think this a valuable lesson for the fencer to learn before traveling to a NAC and losing an important touch in a national venue. There, for certain they don't care who are friends. It is not smart to be verbal (or funny or a wiseguy) on the strip, especially between "Fence!" and "Halt!".

I absolutely agree that there are many valuable lessons to be learned from fencing. However, this was not one of them. The comment did not occur between "fence" and "halt", and it was a moment of levity that the audience appreciated. The referee's reaction was overbearing and unnecessary.

[bunbury]

It is funny that we are making foil and sabre fencers wear $500 lexan masks to make the sport more "spectator friendly" (not that I agree the masks do such a thing) but then card a fencer for actually engaging the audience. The fencer should have gotten a point AWARDED to him for making the audience laugh.

fie != usfa

[Inquartata]

Thank goodness M. Roch's writ does not yet extend so far...