12-10-2007, 07:35 PM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,254
| tournament results
does any other organization wait more than a week before posting results, or just the NIWFA?
because while i realize that the christmas invitational is small and insignificant to many other people, i still want to know where i (and my teammate) ended up.
coach probably knows, but since this was our last team event, he has proven hard to contact.
so; does anyone have results (particularly the epee) from the NIWFA christmas invitational?
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I am but mad by north-north west. When the wind is southerly i know a hawk from a handsaw. -Hamlet
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12-10-2007, 07:39 PM
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#2 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,951
| Attached.
-B
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12-10-2007, 08:05 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,419
| ........lots of organizations wait that long. NIWFA is..... disorganized to the point of self mutilation in many other ways; why would this be different?
Results usually are sent to coaches in a (semi) reasonable timeframe, when we fence the event, my coach just forwards them to everyone.
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12-10-2007, 08:24 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,254
| Quote:
Originally Posted by oiuyt  Attached.
-B | thank you very much.
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I am but mad by north-north west. When the wind is southerly i know a hawk from a handsaw. -Hamlet
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12-10-2007, 09:49 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,074
| Ahem.
I'm the webmaster for the NIWFA, and Denise O'Connor just e-mailed me this evening saying she would send me the results. As soon as I get 'em, I'll convert them from spreadsheet format and post them.
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12-10-2007, 10:11 PM
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#6 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,951
| Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff Ahem.
I'm the webmaster for the NIWFA, and Denise O'Connor just e-mailed me this evening saying she would send me the results. As soon as I get 'em, I'll convert them from spreadsheet format and post them. | What, the attachment in post #2 in this thread isn't (official) enough?
For what it's worth, the tournament took place 12/2/07 and the results were sent to coaches 12/3/07. Corrected results (one fencer was listed with the wrong school, one of the school names was mis-spelled) were sent out to coaches 12/4/07.
-B
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"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
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12-10-2007, 10:53 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,419
| Webmasters can only post things when they get them. But what makes me wonder is why on earth you weren't included in at least the second email......
*Shrug*. I'm still just bitter about the year I asked a fairly simple question about the format of the event in a patient, calm, and polite manner and got yelled at. And I do mean that literally.
And I still don't know what the format is.
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12-11-2007, 12:35 AM
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#8 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,951
| Quote:
Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint And I still don't know what the format is. | Format for Christmas Invitational?
Several rounds of pools with a cut each time. Usually (although not this year) with a consolation round for those in the first cut.
Round breaks this year were (IIRC):
WE: 37->24->18->9
WF: 46->36->18->9
WS: 46->36->18->9
(I thought one of WF/WS had 47 entries, but only 46 appear on the results for each)
Pools of 6 & 7 in the first round, pools of 6 in the 2nd and 3rd, pool of 9 for the final.
-B
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"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
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12-11-2007, 08:41 AM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,074
| Quote:
Originally Posted by oiuyt What, the attachment in post #2 in this thread isn't (official) enough? | Beats me. I know nothing of the organization and how data is collected and distributed except that Denise sends me the files. Which I now have, along with a correction to the membership page. If all goes well, I'll have the results posted this evening.
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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12-11-2007, 09:31 AM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,419
| Right, but how are pools seeded after the initial pool? Using all the data, just the previous pool's data, or randomly?
Based on the chewing out I received (and the lack of answer), I've always assumed "randomly".
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12-11-2007, 10:31 AM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Hall School, Wellesely, MA
Posts: 3,821
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Originally Posted by jeff Beats me. I know nothing of the organization and how data is collected and distributed except that Denise sends me the files. Which I now have, along with a correction to the membership page. If all goes well, I'll have the results posted this evening. | Will that include details of individual rounds?
-m | |
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12-11-2007, 01:03 PM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,074
| Sorry, afraid not. Neither the spreadsheet that Denise sent me, or Brad's above, contains anything other than final individual ranking in each weapon. I've asked Denise if she can send that to me, or maybe Brad can. The only difference at first glance between the two spreadsheets is that the 9 finalists in each weapon are in bold-font in Denise's copy.
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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12-11-2007, 02:27 PM
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#13 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,951
| Quote:
Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint Right, but how are pools seeded after the initial pool? Using all the data, just the previous pool's data, or randomly?
Based on the chewing out I received (and the lack of answer), I've always assumed "randomly". | Each round is seeded based off of the previous round's results. Both promotion and seeding order come from a single round at a time.
Initial seeding is done first by USFA classification and second by school-specified order.
For example if Andrea and Betsy are both unclassified fencers from State University, as is Abigail from College of the Commonwealth, and SU ranks Andrea #1 and Betsy #2, while CotC ranks Abigail as their #1 then Andrea and Abigail will both seed ahead of Betsy. Basically it's used to split ties in USFA classification before the random drawing of lots. Somewhat useful given the heavy preponderance of unclassified fencers in this tournament.
Where it's not particularly theoretically sound is when one starts to notice that schools are of dramatically different strength. The unclassified #4 fencer from a school with two C's and a D is likely stronger than the #3 fencer from a school with three unclassified fencers. Yet the #3 from the weak school will be seeded ahead of the #4 from the strong school.
The real question is is this method better than random drawing of lots. I suspect that it is. Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff Sorry, afraid not. Neither the spreadsheet that Denise sent me, or Brad's above, contains anything other than final individual ranking in each weapon. I've asked Denise if she can send that to me, or maybe Brad can. The only difference at first glance between the two spreadsheets is that the 9 finalists in each weapon are in bold-font in Denise's copy. | The tournament was run on index cards. I don't know whether or not those cards have been retained. Posting intermediate results would require a) access to those cards, b) transcribing the data contained thereon.
-B
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12-11-2007, 02:35 PM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,074
| Ah, very old school.... Well, I guess the final results are all we'll have.
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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12-11-2007, 06:46 PM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,419
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Originally Posted by oiuyt Each round is seeded based off of the previous round's results. Both promotion and seeding order come from a single round at a time. | See, I would have appreciated that information when I would potentially have fenced it ever again, because that system creates very specific tactics.... bah.
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12-11-2007, 07:40 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,074
| Results are now posted. Same day service, no extra charge. (Oh, okay - double my fee!) Any mistakes, PM me and I'll check it out.
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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