Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Hofc · 12-10-2007, 05:45 AM

I notice that according to the athlete handbook, the Olympic team is selected using points from competitions occurring before March 8th, 2008. However, there are 6 designated World Cups after this date (Tunis, Alger, Bangkok, Madrid, Valencia, and Las Vegas) and that 3 of those are Grand Prix events.

Is the Athlete's Handbook off on this point? That seems like an awful lot of strong competitions for men's sabre fencers to miss out on as a metric for Olympic qualification.

KD5MDK · 12-10-2007, 07:27 AM

Presumably they'll be used for seeding the Olympics, which given it's straight DE could be somewhat important. There's also the year after the Olympics, which might matter for some.

oiuyt · 12-10-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hofc

I notice that according to the athlete handbook, the Olympic team is selected using points from competitions occurring before March 8th, 2008.

It doesn't specify March 8th, 2008, it specifies "3/08", so Tunis and Algers should both count towards selection.

The team is chosen at the Division I National Championships, towards the end of April. There are no world cups after Algers but before that event.

Bangkok, Madrid, Valencia, and Las Vegas occur after the team selection date and therefore cannot be considered for that purpose.

-B

Hofc · 12-10-2007, 03:29 PM

Ah, thanks. I guess I had just been looking at another qualifying details page in the handbook that featured exact dates and got mixed up -- that and the coincidence of 12/7 being the date of the first NAC. Thanks again.

fencerbill · 12-10-2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oiuyt

It doesn't specify March 8th, 2008, it specifies "3/08", so Tunis and Algers should both count towards selection.

The team is chosen at the Division I National Championships, towards the end of April. There are no world cups after Algers but before that event.

Bangkok, Madrid, Valencia, and Las Vegas occur after the team selection date and therefore cannot be considered for that purpose.

-B

It is one thing for the US to choose a team, but doesn't participation in individual events at the Olympics, at least for some, depend on FIE ranking?

What is the cutoff date for those FIE rankings?

oiuyt · 12-10-2007, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fencerbill

It is one thing for the US to choose a team, but doesn't participation in individual events at the Olympics, at least for some, depend on FIE ranking?

What is the cutoff date for those FIE rankings?

Also end of March.

They need to have time to hold Zonal Qualifiers for the last few slots.

-B

silver2e · 12-11-2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oiuyt

It doesn't specify March 8th, 2008, it specifies "3/08", so Tunis and Algers should both count towards selection.

Considering the two bombings that have just (again) occurred in Algiers, I find it difficult to understand how the USFA can send our fencers over there for a tournament. And why would the FIE choose this country?

oiuyt · 12-11-2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silver2e

Considering the two bombings that have just (again) occurred in Algiers, I find it difficult to understand how the USFA can send our fencers over there for a tournament. And why would the FIE choose this country?

It's a Grand Prix event for both MS and WS. With associated team events. It will have a significant impact on qualification and seeding for the Olympics.

Given that it's the final tournament in the qualifying cycle, it's possible that our slots will be wrapped up by then. It would still count towards positioning.

I have no information regarding whether or not the US fencers will/would (fully) participate if that's the case.

Last year (non-GP) we had a few Americans participate:
Mariel took 1st, Sada took 9th in WS. (48 entries)
Tim M. took 2nd, Jason took 12th, Jon Marcel took 43rd in MS. (58 entries)

-B

Miglin · 12-11-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silver2e

Considering the two bombings that have just (again) occurred in Algiers, I find it difficult to understand how the USFA can send our fencers over there for a tournament. And why would the FIE choose this country?

How could any nation send fencers to the US when they could be hit by a plane or shot by a disgruntled teenager?

Mo · 12-11-2007, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silver2e

Considering the two bombings that have just (again) occurred in Algiers, I find it difficult to understand how the USFA can send our fencers over there for a tournament. And why would the FIE choose this country?

This is something that is under discussion with coaches. Issues of personal safety are not considered if there are points to be earned which cannot be earned somewhere else. The bombing has made the issue more serious but fot those of us who follow the news carefully and read up on the areas where our children and we are expected to go, it is not that much of a shocker.
Fortunately, there are some clearer minds in the USFA (Bless your heart Nancy) who see that fencers should have a choice, even if they receive funding.
After talking to a lot of coaches about this topic at the Richmond NAC, it seems the college coaches learn more toward safety IE:Not going and the non college coaches are more for doing what they can to get points and safety be damned.
It is too bad that so far, 122 people had to die to emphasize Algeria is not the place for a very important grand prix,
The Momster

AndrewH · 12-11-2007, 07:45 PM

Yea, my teammate is going to Iran next month to get some more points. Maybe it's a part of the grand "anti American success" conspiracy of the FIE, now that the sabre rules changes have been vetoed. What's next, a GP in Afghanistan? (Odds are it's already been made a federation by Roche... what would be standing in the way of a WC?)

So what exactly is the point of the Las Vegas GP if it's after the cutoff dates for qualification and seeding?

KD5MDK · 12-11-2007, 08:13 PM

Trip to Sin City for lots of foreigners?

oiuyt · 12-11-2007, 08:45 PM

It's after the cut-off for qualification, but not for seeding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIE Website

AFGHANISTAN (AFG)

Afghanistan Fencing Federation
P.O.Box No. 1824
G.P.O.
Kabul
Phone : +93 70 22 50 55 / +93 70 27 55 61
Fax : +93 21 02 470 / +93 20 21 00 361
E-mail : jekdalek@yahoo.com

fencerbill · 12-11-2007, 08:57 PM

Isn't it also the practice that events take place just about the same time year after year? If you have WS in June, you have it in June next year also. If you give up a place in the schedule, someone else grabs it and then you have to wait for another opportunity.

oiuyt · 12-11-2007, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fencerbill

Isn't it also the practice that events take place just about the same time year after year? If you have WS in June, you have it in June next year also. If you give up a place in the schedule, someone else grabs it and then you have to wait for another opportunity.

Yes, although which are designated GP moves around. And tournaments sometimes add or drop events (relatively rarely, however).

Actually, that's part of why Algers is a GP this year. It was noticed after the schedule was announced that all of the Olympic-cycle GP events in MS were in the Euro zone. The FIE (after a couple of rounds of voting) designated Algers as an additional GP to help even things out at least a little bit.

-B

AndrewH · 12-11-2007, 09:26 PM

I should contact this Mr. Dalek and find out exactly how many fencers the great nation of Afghanistan has...

You know, that gives me an idea. Ascertain the fencing population of various national federations, and divide to find out the FIE vote/fencers ratio. Then add up the FIE points for each country's top fencers and compare. I have a feeling that the highest-achieving countries would also have the lowest vote/fencers ratio (let's just abbreviate it as "influence"). Any of the FNet number crunchers bored and looking for something to do?

(I'm working on a term paper due tomorrow so I'm almost tempted to, despite my aversion to statistics).

oiuyt · 12-11-2007, 09:38 PM

Afghanistan currently has no fencers with an FIE license.

Last season they had 1 fencer (Muzammil Farooq). Same in 05-06. None prior to that going back to 01-02 (the earliest the FIE lists online).

-B

KD5MDK · 12-12-2007, 12:04 AM

If it didn't count for seeding, it would be a great opportunity to send some of our not quite team members to try and pickup some points while the team prepped for Beijing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Yes, although which are designated GP moves around. And tournaments sometimes add or drop events (relatively rarely, however).

Actually, that's part of why Algers is a GP this year. It was noticed after the schedule was announced that all of the Olympic-cycle GP events in MS were in the Euro zone. The FIE (after a couple of rounds of voting) designated Algers as an additional GP to help even things out at least a little bit.

-B

I love the logic where due to all the events being in Europe they add one that's about 2 hours away from Europe.

oiuyt · 12-12-2007, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

If it didn't count for seeding, it would be a great opportunity to send some of our not quite team members to try and pickup some points while the team prepped for Beijing.

Still can.

We can enter up to 30 in the WF (A-grade) and up to 20 in the M/WS (GP). Assuming no FIE policy changes since last season.

Look at the results from previous years, we have had plenty of not-quite-team-members (and plenty of not-quite-not-quites) competing.

-B

KD5MDK · 12-12-2007, 07:21 AM

Hmm. I thought the restrictions were a lot tighter for GPs, like 8, 12 if you host.