12-08-2007, 10:25 PM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: IU Bloomington
Posts: 525
| Prime and Covering Target - WITH PICS OF COOKEIT!
I was just wondering what I should be doing with my backhand while doing prime (foil).
Here are some pictures of me that were taken today.
I'm against an A07 who is top 10 in Cadet! (I won't say any names because we all know how that worked out last time..)
I'm the fencer on the left with the black ankle brace on.
I was never carded for covering during this bout.. but maybe these photos prove I should have been. http://www.flickr.com/photos/21667329@N02/2096883136/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/21667329@N02/2096883314/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/21667329@N02/2096883714/
Any comments would be nice...
Feel free to make any helpful comments about my other pics...
Yes, my haircut blows, its new!
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12-08-2007, 10:54 PM
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#2 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,538
| I don't see the covering...
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12-08-2007, 11:01 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: IU Bloomington
Posts: 525
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquartata  I don't see the covering... | Well,
in the first picture,
shouldn't I have needed to put my backhand like straight up so I am not covering the side?
If I'm not covering thats good, I was just wondering if I was. (and I wanted to show off my cool pics) =]
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12-08-2007, 11:02 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Melbourne, North Korea
Posts: 305
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquartata I don't see the covering... | Neither do I, but as we're all aware that'll probably change next year where having a non-weapon arm that hasn't been removed will constitute "intent to cover" under the new Rene Roch Brand Foil which will be punishable by a black card and public flogging. | |
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12-08-2007, 11:05 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: IU Bloomington
Posts: 525
| Whoops, my bad guys.
I forgot to add the purpose of the thread into the first post...
I was just wondering IF I was covering or not.
Thanks.
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12-08-2007, 11:29 PM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pacoima, ca USA
Posts: 5,991
| Nope....no covering call...as Derek Cotton put it..."It's gotta hang somewhere."
GREAT shots...especially #1! | |
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12-08-2007, 11:46 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 427
| Nice pictures. Did the ref annul the touches in the 1st (past opponent) & 3rd picture (off strip)?
And putting my coaches hat on, don't let your back foot rise up on the toes when you lunge. Trust me, you're big toe will thank you for not doing that... | |
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12-08-2007, 11:52 PM
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#8 | | Member
Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 42
| No covering from what I see. Great pics.
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12-09-2007, 12:01 AM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: IU Bloomington
Posts: 525
| Quote:
Originally Posted by jfarmer Nice pictures. Did the ref annul the touches in the 1st (past opponent) & 3rd picture (off strip)?
And putting my coaches hat on, don't let your back foot rise up on the toes when you lunge. Trust me, you're big toe will thank you for not doing that... | The touch in the first picture counted, but in the third I think my opponent locked me out so my touch didn't show up anyway.
I will definitely keep that toe thing in mind.
I never realized it until seeing these pics!
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12-09-2007, 12:53 AM
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#10 | | Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 10,177
| Who was passing who in the 1st one? | |
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12-09-2007, 02:28 AM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 427
| Quote:
Originally Posted by KD5MDK Who was passing who in the 1st one? | It looked to me that the fencer on the left is passing. I read the action as: "Attack from the left; counter-attack from the right; Attack, no (touch arriving after past); counter-attack, yes"
I suppose that the fencer on the right who's ducking could have caused the pass...
Cookeit, do you remember the action in this exchange? | |
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12-09-2007, 02:31 AM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ??FC ~)---------- San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,291
| I'm not sure you understand what "covering target" means.
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12-09-2007, 02:50 AM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Bozeman, Montana
Posts: 2,572
| I do wonder though, why such a high prime, that I would think would be used to counter a fleche, against a croucher?
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12-09-2007, 11:34 AM
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#14 | | Just Joined
Join Date: May 2006 Location: Close by, usually
Posts: 19
| Why the question? You are covering..
You guys are funny. You want to reverse shoulders totally and leave your non-armed arms dangling in the way? Both of you would be carded for covering. And you know it too, so get over it.
Hilarious,
S >^_^<
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12-09-2007, 11:37 AM
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#15 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,538
| You mean the way their ARMED hands are "in the way" about 90% of the time? Tcha. 
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12-09-2007, 12:26 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Brooklyn Center, MN, USA
Posts: 461
| Nice Camera work!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookeit Well,
in the first picture, shouldn't I have needed to put my backhand like straight up so I am not covering the side?
If I'm not covering thats good, I was just wondering if I was. (and I wanted to show off my cool pics) =] | Nice job landing the over the head shot, too!
It's always a little hard to say things, definitively, from still shots...
However, since (I am assuming) I am seeing 3 shots of separate, yet similar actions, I'll say you are probably OK:
At normal fencing distances your arm is not in front of target, nor is it tightly held to your body...there are pictures in the rules which imply that the rear hand should be held UP, with the arm bent, and hand high; the Classicists would say this is why!
Normal practice in most USFA events I see, is that is now an accepted position, if the guy gets that far around to the side, it's his problem, and as long as you don't tense up, and clamp it against your side, you'll be OK!
The 'flip side' of the issue is that, if you continue to keep the 'dropped hand stance', and you WERE to try to compensate by moving the rear arm, to avoid being seen as covering, you could easily be seen as using unarmed hand/arm, which is NOW an IMMEDIATE RED CARD!
<Refrain from Classicists!>
Additionally, if you were at mid to close distance, and YOU execute a pivoting move, reversing your shoulders, NOW you WOULD be covering...
<Refrain from Classicists!>
Moreover, if you were THEN to try to swing your arm up to NOT cover, you would be even MORE likely to be seen as using unarmed hand/arm, which, again, is NOW an IMMEDIATE RED CARD!
<Refrain from Classicists!>
Also, if you were simply advance, or fleché by HIM, in the FRONT, you WILL, often, be seen as covering (depending, somewhat, on the arm position), though many of the hack referees you will get at the Illinois and Midwest High
School events won't call it, at upper levels there are ref's who, call covering in that situation, when appropriate (it's still a little dependent on the arm position).
Good stuff, though!
Keep up the good work! | |
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12-09-2007, 12:30 PM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Brooklyn Center, MN, USA
Posts: 461
| This Is The Real Problem With Fencing Today!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Fencer Nope....no covering call...as Derek Cotton put it..."It's gotta hang somewhere."
GREAT shots...especially #1! | Well, then he's just flat out wrong, and lost all credibility with me, maybe should use that yellow jacket to wash cars! 
Note the pictures in the rule book - the arm DOESN'T have to HANG ANYWHERE!  | |
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12-09-2007, 03:31 PM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: I have no home
Posts: 1,962
| Yes we have a new troll.
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I now dangle to the left....my tassle. Get your minds out of the gutter.
"Martin was not an optimist; he was a prisoner of hope." Optimism is about assuming there's evidence that justifies your outlook while hope is about creating the evidence and procuring your own happiness or vision of the world. - Professor West
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12-09-2007, 04:00 PM
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#19 | | gother than thou
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 855
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Well, then he's just flat out wrong, and lost all credibility with me, maybe should use that yellow jacket to wash cars!
Note the pictures in the rule book - the arm DOESN'T have to HANG ANYWHERE! | http://www.doingitwrong.com/wrong/20070607-114722.jpg | |
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12-09-2007, 07:14 PM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,875
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Well, then he's just flat out wrong, and lost all credibility with me, maybe should use that yellow jacket to wash cars!
Note the pictures in the rule book - the arm DOESN'T have to HANG ANYWHERE! |
You vs. Derek Cotton. Deathmatch. Go!
He will EAT you. | |
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