Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Chrisman321 · 12-05-2007, 07:44 PM

Is it just me or is it harder to use Leon Paul epees to do oppositions? Many people my age (around 14) use Leon Pauls as well as me but when I look at the older people at my club, not a single person has 1. I like Leon Paul because of the durabilty and flexibility but they're a little different than other blades. Is it the blade or just me?? And if it is the blade, what blades doyou recommend using that is worth the money?

erooMynohtnA · 12-05-2007, 08:14 PM

I recommend StM saber blades.

Chrisman321 · 12-05-2007, 08:19 PM

Why Saber blades? I fence epee...and ive used stm but theyre just too stiff. What blades generally do very experienced fencers use? at least from what company..i know FIE, Maraging, etc

commiemermaid · 12-05-2007, 08:24 PM

You're an epee fencer, no? From what I've heard and from my own experience with LP epee blades, you have a point. They are much less stiff than most other epee blades (though they're still durable), so they don't stand up as well to beats or anything else where power is involved. Since I started using an LP, my style of fencing has changed significantly -- but, I think, for the better. I have to think more about strategy than brute force, which is especially useful in learning to fence men (I can't compete with male-bodied people in strength).

It seems that many intermediate-level fencers use LP blades for various reasons, then 'grow out of them' as they get more experience. I think it's because more experienced fencers like a stiffer blade for more point control, but I'll let them speak for themselves. That doesn't mean, though, that it's a bad blade for you now -- if you like the feel of it, there's no reason you shouldn't use it, and they're good blades! It'd be silly to switch away from a blade you like just because better fencers don't use them. I'm personally very happy with my LP; it's all a matter of taste and style.

erooMynohtnA · 12-05-2007, 08:29 PM

It was a joke.

If you want a light, whippy blade, maybe look into Prieur FIE. They're pretty cheap for an FIE blade, but they're pretty fragile for an FIE blade.

The LP Kolobkov-Pro is heavier in the forte (and probably the foible) than standard LP blades, but it's costly. It's possibly the closest in feel to a standard LP blade.

If you want a heavy, whippy blade, look at Vniti.

If you want what most international athletes use, I'd probably look at Blaise Freres. They're rebranded by a lot of companies, such as Uhlmann.

The problem is that you're not going to find anything similar to an LP blade. They're unique. If you want something that's light, whippy, and worth the money, you have the perfect blade for it. If you're having trouble with taking the blade, work on your takes, not your blade. (Although you are right, it's harder with a light blade.)

Chrisman321 · 12-05-2007, 08:32 PM

Its true, i did say i like the feel for them and i feel my style of fencing has changed too but i dunno something about the force seems a bit off. Im a guy and its just sometimes i feel weaker or overpowered when people parry me because the blade is differnet. I mean I just wanna try another blade with better power to it so I can fence to my full potential since im slightly more on the agressive side.

Ok, u were joking haha, i was gonna say...
Anyways i didnt know u since im knew so I couldnt tell if u were just dumb or joking >.< jk

oiuyt · 12-05-2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erooMynohtnA

I recommend StM saber blades.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisman321

Why Saber blades? I fence epee...

Yes, but fortunately it's curable.

-B

Goldgar · 12-05-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisman321

Is it just me or is it harder to use Leon Paul epees to do oppositions? Many people my age (around 14) use Leon Pauls as well as me but when I look at the older people at my club, not a single person has 1. I like Leon Paul because of the durabilty and flexibility but they're a little different than other blades. Is it the blade or just me?? And if it is the blade, what blades doyou recommend using that is worth the money?

Speaking as an "older person", I can say that I *love* the LP epee blades, and I've never had any trouble doing oppositions and prises de fer with them. Since the blade is lighter, it doesn't have as much inertia as some other blades, and that may mean that you have to get the contact points closer to perfect in blade-control actions, but I have just never noticed any problem.

The lightness combined with the folded design makes the blade lively but not whippy, and point control is very easy -- not difficult as commiemermaid suggested. It does make some sense that the blade would be more easily displaced by a strong beat than a heavier blade would, but on the other hand, it's easier to put back into line.

Everybody has his own preference in blades, and your own may change over time. If you like some other blade better, and your fencing results confirm that preference, go with it! But I wouldn't draw any conclusion about the LP blade just because other people in your club don't use it. Some like it, some don't. I like it.

Chrisman321 · 12-05-2007, 09:42 PM

I know. I have nothing against LP products. In fact, I get almost all my fencing gear there. Its just I wish I could have it a little sturdier.
I read eroomynohtna's post and I looked up some of them. Viniti's look alright but a bit too tankish to me. Im interested in that LP Kolobkov-Pro because its supposedly an LP with stronger forte and better balance. Its not that I wanna change because people in my club dont use LP, its just that if all the older experienced fencers arent using it, doesnt that say something? A few of my friends my age are using it now like me but its just since I switched, its been a little harder to use my fencing style. I use a Viscounti, not french so i tend to like to make some blade contact, beat, parry, that kind of stuff, then just disengage and point control hitting. Does anyone here own it and wanna tell me how it compares to regular LP epee blades? I have read that other thread about it but I wanna hear ur opinions again because some may be new or have changed. Is it a big more sturdy and still able to do what normal LP's can do?

erooMynohtnA · 12-05-2007, 11:58 PM

http://www.fencing.net/about/armory/...pee-blade.html

Chrisman321 · 12-06-2007, 07:16 AM

Ok, so if I do buy that, do I need to buy separate pieces like the guard and grip and assemble it??

Zilverzmurfen · 12-06-2007, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisman321

Ok, so if I do buy that, do I need to buy separate pieces like the guard and grip and assemble it??

The blades seems to be sold bare so yes; if you do not have spare guard/grip etc. you will need to buy that.

I looked here but it doesn't look as if the F.Net shop sells that blade ready-assembled. However, it could be worth dropping them an e-mail and ask if they will (if you do not want to assemble it yourself).

Edit: I've used a lot of StM blades during my, uuh... 'career' (lol), and I have to say I've never found them to be particularly stiff. I think they're cheap, durable blades that in the end of their life span tend to be too soft (about the 1/3 of the blade from the tp). I'm referring to both the StM FIE's and non-FIE's.

The same goes for Dynamo blades -- a cheap and durable blade. (Admittedly I haven't used them for years since they do not make FIE blades, so it's fully possible they've changed since).

I still use a couple of StM's, but my favourite blades are the Blaise Frères (blue), they're wonderful.

TBean · 12-06-2007, 09:40 AM

Blade preferfence is exactly that, what one person uses does not mean much of anything except to the individual. Different blades work for different folks for hosts of reasons. Just because the older more experienced fencers at your club don't use them, does not mean that at other clubs they don't. As an "older fencer" I like the LP blades as do many of my teammates. However, I have a variety of blades on my seven-odd weapons and my primary criteria is weight. Above all else, I need a light blade.

Try a couple of other blades, see how they work for you. Perhaps something with a bit more heft but not without give is what you want. You can take apart your current weapons and put the new blades on or get all new ones.

CvilleFencer · 12-06-2007, 10:07 AM

I think part of the reason that many of the "older" people in your club don't use LP is that they were not exposed to it in their fencing "youth". LP was relatively unknown in the US for a long time and most of their US sales were through Santelli or AM Fence and not as their own storefront. A little odd considering that they are one of the oldest and most respected manufacturers around. It has only really been in the last few years that LP has become a common brand in US fencing circles. For a long time they were sort of like Negrini, Lammet and Carmimari are now. People who really know gear know them, but a lot of the recreational/casual fencers only knows cheap, Uhlmann and Allstar.

As to the blade, as others have mentioned it is a great blade for newer or younger fencers, or anyone who prefers a light blade. You don't see them used much at the higher levels, but I can think of several A/B fencers that use them and at least one National Team member. Use what you like, and if you like LP but want a more stiff blade or a little more power, go with the K Pro.

fencerchica · 12-06-2007, 10:21 AM

Disclaimer -- I'm a foilist who messes around with epee on the side.

My first epee was an LP non-FIE with the folded blade. I picked it for the reputation for durability and light weight, figuring that as I was accustomed to the weight of a foil, it'd be easier to adjust to. It delivered what it promised, but on the other hand I also found it to be a little soggy and to deliver less force on the blade takes.

My second epee, on the recommendation of all my epeeist friends, is a Vniti, and I'm in luuuurve! I found the Vniti's balance point to be noticeably closer to the guard despite the greater weight of the blade, giving me a heavier yet more responsive feel for quick and authoritative takes, and it was still whippy enough for a nice flick effect (not that I use it effectively, but that's another matter, LOL). The Vniti just feels so much more "alive" in my hand than the LP does.

Chris · 12-06-2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisman321

I know. I have nothing against LP products. In fact, I get almost all my fencing gear there. Its just I wish I could have it a little sturdier.
I read eroomynohtna's post and I looked up some of them. Viniti's look alright but a bit too tankish to me. Im interested in that LP Kolobkov-Pro because its supposedly an LP with stronger forte and better balance. Its not that I wanna change because people in my club dont use LP, its just that if all the older experienced fencers arent using it, doesnt that say something?

It probably says they have a bag full of gear that they are already happy with! Ignorance is bliss! They are deeply invested in their technique, and not really interested in doing something that would require them to change..

Goldgar is Older than me, but I am pretty sure I have been fencing epee longer than him; '79 JO's...in 1999, I spent about $60, and bought 3 new 'russian' blades (NOT STM!), although I suppose it's possible that was incorrect - it seemed beleivable...I thought it was a deal, especially since they had french-style tips...about 3 months later they were all broken!
(And I don't break a lot of blades...)

After that I tried the 2nd generation LP blade (the first models had a tunnel through the tang piece, which looked a little odd, and harder to make...)
I got a little frustrated with those, as the barrels seemed to loosen easily - NOW (I beleive) they have altered that step in the process, and don't crimp the end so tightly, leaving more springiness/friction as you screw the barrell on...it's much better, and I haven't bought anything else for 6 years! I think I have bought about 10... only break about 1 a year...and that's 3 mights a week about 48 weeks a year!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisman321

A few of my friends my age are using it now like me but its just since I switched, its been a little harder to use my fencing style. I use a Viscounti, not french so i tend to like to make some blade contact, beat, parry, that kind of stuff, then just disengage and point control hitting. Does anyone here own it and wanna tell me how it compares to regular LP epee blades? I have read that other thread about it but I wanna hear ur opinions again because some may be new or have changed. Is it a big more sturdy and still able to do what normal LP's can do?

I have not used the LP FIE blade; They seem the most reasonably priced FIE blades...I normally wear a size 10 glove (like them snug for epee), and use a medium and SMALL 'italian' visconti handles (occaisionally, an XS!), and I am all about the blade contact!

(My problem is NOT touching the blade!)

What I DON'T do is try to do is reach out and arm-wrestle a guy; not because the blade won't allow it, or because I am not strong enough, because that's a good way to get hit!

The lightness of the blade allows you to move it fast using your fingers, not your arm!

The consistency of the blades is very high, so that you won't have to sort through a bundle of odd-ball blades to find one like you like! - And they last a long time, so when you DO you get a replacement blade, it's not like getting a 'NEW' blade. A fairly good break-in bout will get it behaving like all the others!

AND they also do well in the rust category! (i.e. don't get covered in orange fur!)

THey are a bit more on the front end, but if you are a busy fencer, worth it in time saved!

***Craig*** · 12-06-2007, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen

I looked here but it doesn't look as if the F.Net shop sells that blade ready-assembled. However, it could be worth dropping them an e-mail and ask if they will (if you do not want to assemble it yourself).

Right now Leon Paul is having production troubles with the K-Pro such that they only produce about 25 per month right now. I've got a number of backorders for epees built with the K-Pro blade, but I didn't want that to stay up during the gift buying over the next two weeks as holiday shoppers don't always read that items are special order or back ordered for 1-2 months.

Craig

FoilyDeath · 12-06-2007, 12:38 PM

You can currently order the kolobkovs at LPUSA...not sure if your just reserving it, but it does look like they have them in stock.

tkexi991 · 12-06-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisman321

Its true, i did say i like the feel for them and i feel my style of fencing has changed too but i dunno something about the force seems a bit off. Im a guy and its just sometimes i feel weaker or overpowered when people parry me because the blade is differnet. I mean I just wanna try another blade with better power to it so I can fence to my full potential since im slightly more on the agressive side.

I use the LP non-FIE blades and find them pretty reliable. Personally, I have found the ability to immediately move my point back in line after a beat has been more successful at getting touches (and intimidation) than stronger beats. As for parries, that is more technique than brute strength.

Chrisman321 · 12-06-2007, 04:07 PM

All in all though, Ive heard some good things about the Kolobkov because its like the LP, just a little heavier and thats exactly what im looking for. We all have our own opinions right? So if I did buy one from f.net, who should I ask if I could buy it from them assembled? Because I dont have any spare parts right now so Id rather just buy the whole blade.