Low-line Sabre Attacks -- Update

[oiuyt]

edit: On request of the author, I have removed the quoted text of a letter that I received and had posted here.

The primary content of the letter is the essential information, namely that attacks in sabre should be called regardless of line. Whether an attack is low-line, to head, or to flank, if an approximately 135 degree angle is obtained and all of the other criteria for an attack hold it is an attack. In this regard low-line is not different than other means of threatening target.

I would like to publically apologise for having directly posted what was intended as a private communictions. I would also like to ask that anyone who has a copy of the letter not further distribute it, but rather distribute just the informational content it contains. Thanks.

-B

[AndrewH]

Oh thank freakin' god.

[fencerbill]

Sounds like the classic definition of the Sabre attack.

And it remains that if you are hiding your blade, by keeping the tip back, from potential counter actions, you are not attacking.

[veeco]

Great news!

Now, about that foil target bib thing...

[mrbiggs]

So that whole video, where they show three very high-profile and successful coaches telling us that a sabre below the hand is not "threatening target," is now considered to be wrong?

[KD5MDK]

When coaches tell referees how to call things, guess who suddenly makes all the champions.

[notalent]

Sounds like the classic definition of the Sabre attack.

And it remains that if you are hiding your blade, by keeping the tip back, from potential counter actions, you are not attacking.

Well since your hand wouldnt be extending if you are hiding your blade...

My major complaint with lowline actions are that many fencers start with the hand away from the hip and bring it back to the hip then start their attack. That isnt an attack.

[Inquartata]

Wait.

Sense from the FIE?

Have I slipped into Bizarro World somehow?

[erooMynohtnA]

So it seems pretty obvious which weapon is the favorite child.

[Inquartata]

Well, sure. That ROW business is just so difficult for the Almighty Television Viewer to understand...

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Wait.

Sense from the FIE?

Have I slipped into Bizarro World somehow?

Don't worry, they're trying to lull us into a false sense of complacency.

The foilists aren't buying it.

[stu]

My major complaint with lowline actions are that many fencers start with the hand away from the hip and bring it back to the hip then start their attack. That isnt an attack.

Actually, it is an attack, but only from the moment it starts moving out again, not during the initial pull back.

[KD5MDK]

Nothing is an attack without awareness of what the opponent is doing.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

The opponent is switching to another sport where the rules aren't as..... apt to change.

[AntonioDelMonte]

Don't worry they will change this to and then go on to screw up the next set of changes in the name of progress

[IanSerotkin]

I have to say, this actually disturbs me more than the original video. Not because of the interpretation professed, but because of how deeply it calls into question the credibility of the entire Kramer video.

The video was distributed with a big "FIE" stamp all over it, and was presented as being completely official and binding. Now we find out that the Arbitrage commission does not agree with the content and probably had nothing to do with its creation and distribution in the first place.

If the video had been labeled as "Arthur Kramer's Crazy Opinions", hey, everyone has a right to those. But the fact that he was brazen enough to put personal interpretations in a video, label it as coming from the FIE in an official capacity, and to top it all off, was able to convince some of the best sabre coaches in the world to be his accomplices disturbs me greatly.

The Arbitrage Commission badly needs an official mechanism for distributing official rule interpretations, and it has to be made clear that nothing distributed outside of that mechanism is valid. Or, better yet, update the damn rulebook, in all three weapons, so it's clear and we don't have to guess about any of this crap.

[Inquartata]

I
that he was brazen enough to put personal interpretations in a video, label it as coming from the FIE in an official capacity, and to top it all off, was able to convince some of the best sabre coaches in the world to be his accomplices [/b]

Disturbing, yes; but surprising? I suspect few think so.

[notalent]

Ian raises a valid point, even more disturbing is that AK is someone that has a say who gets an FIE licsense.

[veeco]

Oh, that's pretty much the same in every refereeing comission of every fencing federation I know. Most of it stems from who you can be friends with, and the quality of one's back rubbing skills...

[peet]

The Arbitrage Commission badly needs an official mechanism for distributing official rule interpretations, and it has to be made clear that nothing distributed outside of that mechanism is valid. Or, better yet, update the damn rulebook, in all three weapons, so it's clear and we don't have to guess about any of this crap.

Abso-friggin-lutely!

Some might point out that it's cumbersome and slow to update the rulebook. In that case, all they need is a website upon which they post rule updates. A simple blogging tool would suffice, and could be set up in a few minutes for little or no charge. This would work especially well for "interpretations" and "guidance" that don't quite rise to the level of actual rule changes, like this low-line thing.

But I believe others on this board have suggested this before.

-p


[edit]
Gee that was easy.
(Yeah, i'll probably go delete it soon.....)
[/edit]