Amateur Coaches

[Fencergrl]

Originally Posted by jBirch

On a different note, we have a push around here to get high school phys ed teachers involved in teaching fencing. They obviously have no clue when it comes to fencing but can probably be instructed on how to run a 1 or 2 week introductory program. Are they a bad thing too?

I don't think so. Anything that gets kids interested in fencing and pursuing it, is good for our sport. A 1 or 2 week introductory program is not going to create any lifelong bad habits. So long as the kids are safe and having fun I don't see any problems with it.

BTW... Leon Paul put together an excellent program (video, booklet & weapons) to help PE teachers do introductory fencing programs.

[tbryan]

Originally Posted by keith

The absence of bad habits.

I guess I have never met anyone with strong basics, yet.

[Don Badowski]

Originally Posted by jBirch

But they also enjoy putting down the amateur coaches and generally making it as difficult as possible to run anything but a professional, full time, club. If you don't know, then you're a dummy not worthy of knowing.

You have to wonder just how professional they are, ripping on other coaches and tearing down anything built up by others. Where they professionally trained as coaches? Do they love the sport enough to help, or just feed off it?

I'm reminded of what Mark Masters told me at the 2006 USFCA Conference. We get a lot of these european coaches who never really trained to be coaches. They fenced as student/athletes in the university tournaments, and after four years they're handed a piece of paper saying they're coaches, and don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out. No real training as in pedagogy, sports medicine or sports psychology, but egos big enough to make an NBA star blush.

[johnny blade]

Sir
there are more of us than them. Please keep coaching.
I am a high school coach, we won the high school meet. But I am
not a high level coach. I teach young men and women to fence and be friends and share good times and bad. We cry with them in sadness and yell with them in glad times. When we get old and look back as they come back to school to see their old coach. We share life and memories.
We sir make better people that beats the hell out of making great fencers.
We make great people who fence. Do it for your kids. Do it for your self.
And the coachs who can make both we have more kids coming your way
but we gave them the spark. you build the fire.
You sir are their coach stand up for them be strong! and they will love you for it. as for respect when you look in the mirror thats who you need to respect you.
Coach its a great thing to be in our shoes. walk with us.
Tell the other guy to go to hell,
as far as the usfa they can go to hell too. We are the us fencers.
not the 100 best. all of us. some day the usfa is going to get sued
because they do not care they just take the money and run the meets and if kids get beat hard because referees do not call hard hits or unsafe action even if its in the book and it is. it is not enforced so when it happens i will smile. they only care for the high end fencers. BC almost never have anyone watching over referees so bad referees get away with all kinds of stuff. just look at the post in here from referees only one talks about being a pro, and being above the stuff that they talk about. they demand respect but lose it even from 13 or 10 year olds who look up to them but when they say shiXXX
like flail from my right and shix from my left no touch they have no right to hurt the kid who are just starting out in fencing. some of our kids do this to just belong to a group for friendship and fun. and I want to meet some of these referees in a bar some where some day, after they destroyed some kid who fencing is their only sport and went to a meet and lost ever bout but got some points and was happy about it.
I would like to leave them in a pile on the floor like the dog shiX they are.
so we all some times feel like why do we do this. do it for the look on the kids face and if they are treated bad get some other coach near you and run your own meet and do not call it a usfa meet and share the money and get referees you respect and do not envite the clubs who are ran by the snobs
call it a invite meet and smile they are going to fall soon or later. the usfa is going to get sued over those guys and do you think that in court when the big shot are talking in front of a jurie those referees or coachs will look good oh hell no they will look like the assholxxx they are. then when it hit the usfa money belt and the usfa pres loses their house then they will control the assholXXX. fencing is about the fencers not the referees or the coach.
the bout com are a joke and they should be sued too.
all of them say they know the rules but they do not know why the rules are there they forget. its a game the game is not the main issiue it is the people
and thats why they are going to lose in court. they were almost sued by a parent group over the jo qual because some ref gave a card to protect the metal strip from a fencer running his blade on it but let the kids get beat by hard hits and gave no warnings at all. with 12 simos in a row. the parents have it on tape, all 12, and photos of the wounds on legs and arms on the kids who won the event. at the meeting with lawers it was decided to wait and video tape more meets during the year and show the history of how usfa meets are ran and then sue the usfa after they have a lot of incidents on tape.
they sent a letter to the usfa and got no anser. so do not look to them for help look at your group they are why we do this also vote in the usfa
elections get some new blood up there.
and wait the lawers are.

[RITFencing]

Johnny,

What kind of drugs are you doing and where can I get some?

[oso97]

Wow...

That was... impressive. Lots of vitrol there. Too bad there wasn't any grammar or spelling check...

[jfarmer]

Originally Posted by oso97

Wow...

That was... impressive. Lots of vitrol there. Too bad there wasn't any grammar or spelling check...

I wanted to ask if there was a point to the rant, then decided that I really, really didn't care....

[johnny blade]

your right, there was no point to it just anger. I was mad because I saw a ref
call 12 simotanious attacks in a row and watched the kids beat each other hard trying to get the ROW. and the referee did not say lighten up or warn them or anything. just smile at the other referee and when we the other coachs in the room started to talk to the fencers and get them to lighten up and do some other move we were carded. we talked to the BC rep and he did not come out to the strips for 1 hour. no one to watch the referee and run the event. This was a Jo qualifier. So we took photos and recorded it.
We sent a letter to the usfa. and we the coachs and the parents called a lawer and we have a case building. i looked at your website and you teach kids and you are a referee, a top one I think. you don't think that this many people are upset over nothing, wounds on legs a off target area. a referee calling a yellow then red card on a fencer for straighting his blade on the strip. protecting his club strip. but not calling hard hit or corp to corp with young kids to protect them.
and all you can say is i did not use spell check. you know what.
Thank you the same responce i got from the usfa. please tell me do you care abo.ut the kids you teach or are they just money to you. have you ever told a fencer to take it easy don't use brute force use skill. Its too bad
I soppose you have your fav saying a smartass referee said to some kid about no knowing how to fence too.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes who guards the guards( who refs the refs)
you guys don't so maybe we will and the courts
you guys leave us no choice but to sue.
I heard a referee say we are gods ,well lets see.
oh i have copyed the ref sayings from this site and showed the lawer. he was smiling. I think he is going to use it in court.it shows the usfa own referees talking about how they act. the parents on a jurie will love them.
have you ever stood up for your kids and got a card or do you not even go with them to a fencing event. you just in it for the money?

You did say that if you make a bad call and its reversed you will not make a another. So if you are a good man and i have read you wrong.
I am sorry i am pissed and good gramer is the last thing i care about right now that the lawers job. I was talking to a good coach about assholes
who think they are better than anyone who belittle them and push them aside
because they have high titles. the coach who teaches free for a lot of kids.
who can love watching peter westbrook and the 6 year old fencing too.
Well sir if you want to meet me some time let me know when your in ILL
I would love to talk with you.
I will buy the drinks you tell me why the referees get away will so much ****
and the usfa shows no interest. LOOK at the blogs on this site and you tell me
they deserve respect. they even put their name to the **** they say, where is the usfa saying that is not right.
I have seen referee using cell phones while a bout is going on they are in charge of. selling fencing gear while the bout is going on.
I have had kids walking away crying because the referee said some thing bad to them. ask any kid who they do not want to have them ref and its most of the time the asshole who they do not want he insults them.
We are losing coachs and kids from fencing because of you gods of fencing.
you must be gods.
because you are **** as people.
So tell me where can you complain about a referee and a bout comm. if the usfa will not police its own. show us where a referee was corrected.
you guys can't even agree on what a point in line is.
If there was one of you jerks who said ya know behind every complaint we get is people who fence with us. we should at least hear them out we might lose this case but as I see it you guys are doomed i can show a mom or dad what i put here and they will be on my side. why did the ref not tell the kids to lighten up, why was there so many simos. why is a strip worth more than my kid. you will see a lot of parent lost their cool and not care about spelling too. please tell the referees to bring their best sayings to court i bet the parents will love them.

[Fencergrl]

Wow... quite the rant there (from what I could understand through the bad spelling and grammar). Do you realize this is an international site and many of the members are not even members of the USFA?

Originally Posted by johnny blade

you just in it for the money?

Hmmm did you ask your lawyer this? Or yourself for that matter?

[johnny blade]

any money we win will go to high school fencing programs.
you have any anser? on bad referees.

[Fencergrl]

So what!
How does this really help fencing for all? For little kids, for vets, for elite fencers going to World Cups and the Olympics?

Lawyers are expensive, even if this doesn’t go to court. Sporting organizations generally make enough money to cover their expenses. How does suing the USFA improve fencing in your country? Money that could be spent on making the sport better for all is not going to be sued to feed yours but mostly your lawyer’s greedy little pockets.

The problem with this sport isn’t refs making bad calls but people like you making bad calls. You disgust me... thank god I live in Canada.

[johnny blade]

the names in the ref sayings and the names on the usfa site are the same.
did you know that?
any money we win will go to high school fencing programs. WE will give it to the ihsa not the usfa.
you have any anser? on bad referees.
or is your name in the saying too?
do any of you have anything to say about bad ref or are you scared.
or worse do not care.

[Fencergrl]

You're a f'king idiot. Most people understand that being Canadian means I don't give a rat's arse. Apparently you're too stupid to notice. I feel sorry for the people you coach. Even if your fencers pay nothing they're getting ripped off and you owe them money back.

[johnny blade]

If you can't even get the usfa to have a person you can talk to about problems then a lawsuit will get their butts in court to hear it.
you disgust me you kiss their butt and will not hear a complain.
Football teams were sued and they got better gear and rules and laws to protect the players. If the usfa loses a lawsuit because of a referee and bout comm not protecting young fencing kids, and they could lose more as every parent who see a ref not being a safe referee can sue and win. they will change fast. and why do you not talk about the referees you say it will not make it better yes it will. the usfa will have to take control of their referees.
Now I do say that most of the referees in the usfa do a great job.
but how long do we put up with the wild cards. till a kid gets killed.
then you can say oh how did that happen. Noone watching the guy who was watching the bout.
Oh and the lawer is mr goldstein he is doing this for free. his son was at the jo qual and he told us we could do this.
negligents in his duty. was the term he use. failure to take reasonable care.
control and training and reporting. all the things that you are to do when you run a event. the things that were not done.

[Fencergrl]

Originally Posted by johnny blade

you disgust me you kiss their butt

The depth of your stupidity is astounding. Do you even realize as a Canadian I do not belong to an American fencing organization?

Wow... how do you even get through life? I would sue your school system while you're at it because they failed miserably. If that doesn't work, sue your parents for providing you with the "stupid gene".... and for god sakes, don't breed! I recommend that you castrate yourself immediately... no worries about small things like sterilizing the knife.... now off to the kitchen for that butter knife.

[SFfencer]

Johnny,
you sir are an ass.

If you were to write your posts using proper grammar & spelling, I'm sure more people would read your posts, and respond.

I took the time to read your posts,
are you complaining that the ref. called 12 simultaneous touches?
that can happen....

Sure there are bad refs, those that are bad don't get hired again.
People always complain, but suing the USFA is taking it too far....

[Fencergrl]

I would be very upset if I was a USFA member. I don't pay my fees to my National or Provincial fencing organization so they can be foolishly spent fighting legal battles with illiterate nutbars. What a waste!

Hats off to the USFA members who are working towards making fencing better in the USA rather than trying to tear the organization down with expensive legal battles. If you had brains johnny blade, you would be ashamed of yourself. However your lack of intelligence has been clearly established.

[KidLazy]

Originally Posted by johnny blade

*snip*they were almost sued by a parent group over the jo qual because some ref gave a card to protect the metal strip from a fencer running his blade on it

This rule is not for protecting the metal strip.

Originally Posted by johnny blade

but let the kids get beat by hard hits and gave no warnings at all. with 12 simos in a row. the parents have it on tape, all 12, and photos of the wounds on legs and arms on the kids who won the event. *snip* *another post* I was mad because I saw a ref
call 12 simotanious attacks in a row and watched the kids beat each other hard trying to get the ROW. and the referee did not say lighten up or warn them or anything. *snip*

It sounds ref. did his job right.

Doing the exact same thing over and over again while knowing it failed in all pervious attempts is a sign of idiocy. Disregarding opponent's actions and reactions is a sign of ignorance. Forcing the same actions harder and stronger, will NOT make it faster or better (specially in fencing, it actually makes action slower and worse), is a sign of stubbornness.

It is coachs' job to teach fencers HOW to fence, it is fencers' job to FENCE, not refs'.

[jBirch]

Originally Posted by Fencergrl

I would be very upset if I was a USFA member. I don't pay my fees to my National or Provincial fencing organization so they can be foolishly spent fighting legal battles with illiterate nutbars. What a waste!

Hats off to the USFA members who are working towards making fencing better in the USA rather than trying to tear the organization down with expensive legal battles. If you had brains johnny blade, you would be ashamed of yourself. However your lack of intelligence has been clearly established.

Whoa there girl.

Sueing the sport body probably doesn't do anything good for the sport, but if a coach feels that maligned, then fighting the actions in court is certainly an option. Especially if that coach can't seem to get any resolution or attention at a higher level.

In relation to this thread, have you ever brought a complaint to the provincial or national body as an amateur coach? It's not a fun procedure when you don't have an Olympic coaching reputation to back you.

James.

[oso97]

Originally Posted by johnny blade

please tell me do you care abo.ut the kids you teach or are they just money to you. have you ever told a fencer to take it easy don't use brute force use skill

Umm.... yes, when I'm wearing my coaching hat, I do exactly that (I think - its hard to tell what you're referring to).

In fact, I do this way, way, way before a tournament ever arises. My students know EXACTLY what to do when the referee calls simultaneous. And they better not get more than two actions in a row called simultaneous by attempting the same thing. I do my job as a coach where it has the most effect - IN THE SALLE. When the