Grip question

[Got_Fenced_In]

I have a quick grip question. I'm right handed and use a pistol grip. I don't have the same one on all of my foils, but it seems that all but one make my hand hurt in the same area. (They put a lot of pressure on the right side of the tip of my middle finger, subsequently causing blisters and making my whole hand ache. It's only started fairly recently, too.) So I was just wondering if anyone else had experienced this, what caused it, and what stopped it in the end. Are my grips too small? I can usually use it for a bout or two before my hand starts to hurt, but when it does it makes fencing really hard.. So is the little ridge that hits right there too sharp or too flat? Could I fix it by putting some tape there?

I'm not sure how easily answered this will be since no one can see my grip/hand, but I suppose if it's necessary I could download a picture of them... And don't tell me to just ask my coach. I won't have a chance to. Club is closed for Thanksgiving, but there's a chance I'll be fencing in a tourney this/next weekend, and I'd like to get my grips replaced before then. Thanks!

[Hauptman]

I'm not being a wiseguy here, but you mentioned there was one grip that didn't make your hand hurt. I'd buy more of those grips. There is no reason to keep using a grip that hurts your hand.

Seriously, if one type of grip is more comfortable than the others then go with that one. It's worked for me.

[Got_Fenced_In]

It's still a crappy grip in other areas, (maneuvering is more difficult) which is why I asked for alernative suggestions Like, the possible reasons it might be hurting.

But you are, in a way, right.

[flyingfencer]

Ok, a few questions first. You've been fencing foil for five years according to your profile; so, first question is how long have your grips been hurting you?

What kinds of grips do you have?

Did you recently switch to new grips?

What grips did you use in the past?

Has something changed in your fencing, new coach, new blades, a long lay off, etc...?

[Got_Fenced_In]

Hm. They've been hurting a month, maybe, which I find kind of weird.

I have no idea the exact types of any of them. I have two uhlmanns, an allstar, and some other brand. They all seem pretty close to each other, but I guess not. I also have a zivkovik III, but it isn't 'in use' at the moment, lol.

No, I didn't recently switch.

No new blades. Not really a new coach; I've been with him more than six months. Not really a long break, either. I've been taking less classes than usual lately, but doing more tournaments.. I know I've been fencing a bit differently, though. But I don't think it'd affect my grips? I mean, it's stance, and a few parries I've changed, things like that.

I'm sure that's not much help to you, since I don't know exactly what my grips are =/ (They're in my bag, in my car, with my mom.) I'm sorry about that.

[flyingfencer]

Originally Posted by Got_Fenced_In

Hm. They've been hurting a month, maybe, which I find kind of weird.

I have no idea the exact types of any of them. I have two uhlmanns, an allstar, and some other brand. They all seem pretty close to each other, but I guess not. I also have a zivkovik III, but it isn't 'in use' at the moment, lol.
...

I know I've been fencing a bit differently, though. But I don't think it'd affect my grips? I mean, it's stance, and a few parries I've changed, things like that.
...

I'm assuming the Uhlmanns and Allstar grips are Viscontis. The grip should fit comfortably and completely in your hand, and your thumb and forefinger should be less than 2 cm from the bell guard.

I have a suggestion. Go to your next practice and try relaxing your grip and relaxing yourself on the strip. Try doing your actions with mostly your thumb and forefinger. Also, when you're in between actions on the strip relax. When you make your actions whether defensive or offensive, then expend your energy, but remember to try not to use the hand too much. Try doing the practice just with your thumb and forefinger.

[KD5MDK]

Your hand might also have grown a bit. How does your glove feel?

[Got_Fenced_In]

My glove is fine. I'm fairly positive my hand hasn't grown. (Pretty sure I'm done with that, thank god.) I think it may be that I'm fencing with.. mm, much more 'energy', haha, than I have in a while. And now that I am and my grips don't work anymore, I'm left thinking, 'Now what?'

[Got_Fenced_In]

But I'll try FF's suggestion..

[DangerMouse]

You're gripping too tight.

[Got_Fenced_In]

Why would I develop that habit out of the blue, though? And usually when I'd grip too tight in the past, it would be my wrist and knuckles that would hurt.. All's possible, though, so I won't rule that out until next time I fence and experiment a bit.

[pragmatist]

Originally Posted by Got_Fenced_In

(They put a lot of pressure on the right side of the tip of my middle finger, subsequently causing blisters and making my whole hand ache.

Checklist:
1. Check the balance of your weapon and its effect on your technique.
2. Check the position of your five fingers on each grip.
3.When flicking, the grip moves forward, rubbing the fulcrum (tip of the middle finger in most fencers.)
4. On thrusting hard, the grip moves backward, rubbing said fulcrum.
5. Frequent disengagement moves put pressure on the fulcrum.
6. Receiving strong beats causes the grip to rub the fulcrum.

What to do:
1. Repeat all moves in your fencing repertoire until you can identify which one(s) cause(s) pain (have also a partner beat your blade.)
2. Consult with your coach if you can modify your technique and/or gear.
3. Perhaps you could put padding on your grip and/or glove (I prefer a stiff plastic loop to protect my fingers, a thick piece of leather will work too, only it is more difficult to dry after laundry.)
4. If nothing works, have a physiatrist (not psychiatrist) take a look at your finger.

[VorpalCat]

Originally Posted by Got_Fenced_In

Why would I develop that habit out of the blue, though?

Originally Posted by Got_Fenced_In

I think it may be that I'm fencing with.. mm, much more 'energy', haha, than I have in a while.

I resisted the urge to change the color on the second quote to blue. But it wouldn't surprise me if your additional 'energy' is also lending itself to a more 'clenched' grip than usual. Just a thought.

[DangerMouse]

Originally Posted by Got_Fenced_In

Why would I develop that habit out of the blue, though? And usually when I'd grip too tight in the past, it would be my wrist and knuckles that would hurt.. All's possible, though, so I won't rule that out until next time I fence and experiment a bit.

I don't know. Stress, muscle tension, too much erm, never mind.

[Got_Fenced_In]

All of your suggestions seem way too obvious now


Thank you, though.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Got_Fenced_In

I have a quick grip question.

Sorry - no quick answer...

First - I recommend you remove ALL of your grips, and replace them with handles!

Grips are for?....That's right! GRIPPING!
Handles are for holding!

Originally Posted by Got_Fenced_In

I'm right handed

Sorry, can't help you, there, either!

Originally Posted by Got_Fenced_In

and use a pistol grip. I don't have the same one on all of my foils,

It seems that you are saying you have different handle designs.
Normally, this would not be recommended unless you actually intended to fence DIFFERENTLY with a different handle.

However handles of the same 'design' that are from different manufacturers will differ, sometimes fairly significantly, especially where corners and ridges are concerned; even handles from the same place can very somewhat, based on how the filing and sanding done after they are cast.

(FF implied that allstar and uhlmann handles would be visconti - this is not true: they make others, too)

Originally Posted by Got_Fenced_In

but it seems that all but one make my hand hurt in the same area. (They put a lot of pressure on the right side of the tip of my middle finger, subsequently causing blisters and making my whole hand ache. It's only started fairly recently, too.)

So I was just wondering if anyone else had experienced this, what caused it, and what stopped it in the end. Are my grips too small? I can usually use it for a bout or two before my hand starts to hurt, but when it does it makes fencing really hard.. So is the little ridge that hits right there too sharp or too flat? Could I fix it by putting some tape there?

Why would I develop that habit out of the blue, though? And usually when I'd grip too tight in the past, it would be my wrist and knuckles that would hurt.. All's possible, though, so I won't rule that out until next time I fence and experiment a bit.

Your physical description of your problem really isn't helping me visualize much...but it's pretty normal to get blisters now and then; sometimes you are doing something differently, but don't notice anything right away. You COULD get a blister just from fencing one bout trying a new move, or getting really intense, OR you might go several sessions (depending on how many days in between), before it gets enough irritation.

Blisters caused by rubbing, or a sharp edge/corner digging into the skin can be mitigated by rounding off the geometry: shave it down, or pad it up a little...you can also tape up that area of your fingers with some medical fabric tape.

Tendinitis from repetitive use can take months to really build up, and twice as long (or longer) to clear up, once you discover the bad thing and stop doing it.

It's also easy enough to take a hard guard-guard contact, or really get the handle twisted around in you hand, and not feel anything, even though you've been slightly injured, as you discover two days later tying your boots!

If you have being fencing fairly regularly for sometime, your hands SHOULD become stronger - easily to the point of over-powering your own body. If you take your average Belgian style handle, and wrap you hand & fingers all the way around it, and as you squeeze all the lemon juice out of it, and closely at all of your knuckle & finger joints.

You'll notice SEVERAL of them are bending to the side, why they are happy enough to do, if you ask them nicely, and don't push them too far. Subject them to guard collisions in a belgian death grip like this, and you'll be regretting it! (maybe not today, or tomorrow, but soon, and for the rest of the season!)

Even just squeezing hard, and fencing around with it can be a bit much for some people. This also happens with visconti designs, and most handles to varying degrees, if you are gripping tightly.

As had been said before, you need to practice relaxing, and practice holding the handle more loosely: Pinch with the thumb and first two fingers, and leave the other two fingers relaxed, and mostly off the handle - the handle should only rarely touch the middle of your palm, when making pary in a couple of the positions.

Fencing in this way will allow you to manipulate the blade better, as well - you won't have to move your arm to move the blade;
you can feint & disengage without moving your hand!

Try it!
You'll like it!

But probably not this weekend!

[HDG]

Originally Posted by Chris

Grips are for?....That's right! GRIPPING!
Handles are for holding!

Handles are for handling.

Holders are for holding.

[Got_Fenced_In]

Haha, thank you, HDG. I very much agree with you.

As for Chris:

I do grip with my thumb and first two fingers, as much as possible. I believe that's the problem. See, it isn't so much the blisters, as that small ridge putting a ton of pressure on my middle finger and making my whole hand hurt. So basically what I've been trying to ask is, will switching grips, or taping my current grips, help at all?

[Hauptman]

Originally Posted by Got_Fenced_In

Haha, thank you, HDG. I very much agree with you.

As for Chris:

I do grip with my thumb and first two fingers, as much as possible. I believe that's the problem. See, it isn't so much the blisters, as that small ridge putting a ton of pressure on my middle finger and making my whole hand hurt. So basically what I've been trying to ask is, will switching grips, or taping my current grips, help at all?

Actually, I had a serious problem with visconti style grips; my fingers just never sat comfortably in the grooves and made my hand hurt. I used a belgian for awhile which never gave me problems, and now I prefer the russian grip; only my finger tips (not counting index finger) make contact.

Like I suggested in the second post up there; if those grips make your hands hurt then try a different grip. They are not all made alike.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by Got_Fenced_In

that small ridge putting a ton of pressure on my middle finger and making my whole hand hurt. So basically what I've been trying to ask is, will switching grips, or taping my current grips, help at all?

File down the ridge.