Supplements for Teenagers

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by Mo

Which is why women saber fencers have large posterior muscles and thighs. It should be admired instead of ridiculed... Don't cha think?
The Momster

I've always been one to admire a thick ass.

[journalmom]

Originally Posted by pragmatist

If you look at international top fencers, their upper body is not as muscular as boxers, other martial artists, tennis players, sprinters, gymnasts to name a few. This means fencers don't need upper body strength as much as some other athletes. Fencers need stronger legs (both red and white muscles.) You have to be patient, some kids, especially Asians have their pubertal growth spurt later. Unfortunately, height is a significant plus in all 3 fencing disciplines, like in many other sports. Unless you know how to change the genetic make up of your son, the only way you can do is to maximize the absorption of nutrients that he consumes, which means that every meal/snack should include the proper amount of protein, vitamins and minerals. Excess of protein in one meal without the other nutrients will result in less efficient uptake.

Do I know you? It sounds like you know who I am....

[oso97]

Originally Posted by Mo

Which is why women saber fencers have large posterior muscles and thighs. It should be admired instead of ridiculed... Don't cha think?
The Momster

Most assuredly. Most assuredly

[dcmdale]

Originally Posted by Coldfire

Who would ridicule them for it? They could rip me apart, both on and off the strip!

I think the only acceptable response to "fat b---" comments from the unwashed ignorant is, "Sharps! Behind the Gym! 4 O'Clock! We will see if you have the guts to show up or the brains not to!"

[fatfencer]

Originally Posted by Mo

Which is why women saber fencers have large posterior muscles and thighs. It should be admired instead of ridiculed... Don't cha think?
The Momster

Sings:" Fat Bottomed Girls you make the rockin world go round!!"

I revel in the hugeness of it all.

Fatfencer

[veeco]

Is it fat, or is it muscle???

[oso97]

Originally Posted by veeco

Is it fat, or is it muscle???

If you can bounce a quarter off it, the latter

[Fencergrl]

If you lose the quarter.... well time for a little conditioning.

[Happydayz]

Originally Posted by journalmom

I was thinking about supplementing my son with some protein shakes since he's a little guy with hardly any upper body strength. Now, I know some things about nutrition but I don't know enough about supplementing teenage athletes. He normally HATES to drink anything that are not juices or Gatorade types.

Any ideas on what brand works or if I should even think about supplementing him at age 15? I see some of his peers who are really muscular and I can't help it but to think that these kids (who aren't telling) are paying attention to their muscular development, if you know what I mean.

let me chime in here. I was tall and skinny (6 feet tall, 135 pounds) and managed to pack on an extra 30 pounds of clean weight in about 5-6 months of work.

Protein shakes will not get you big in and of themselves. What gets you big is eating more, of which a good portion of this should be protein. The best way to up your caloric intake safely and to put on clean weight (that is, lean muscle mass as opposed to fat) is to eat about 5-6 times a day, and spread your caloric intake across this.

If your son is just going to be eating his regular 3 meals a day and then taking a shake after a workout he is likely not going to be seeing any extra gains. If you want to gain weight you NEED to up your caloric intake. But at the same time doing so willy nilly can make you put on extra fat which is not what you want.

Also, he is going to need to lift weights in order to do this. Eating extra calories without lifting is a surefire way to pack on fat. Just make sure that he does some research online (and stay FAR AWAY from men's health and fitness magazines) and put together an exercise reliant on compound free weights, NOT machines.

So, to sum up, he needs to do 3 things:
1) consume more calories
2) eat more often
3) lift with compound exercises using free weights.

protein shakes are a good way of squeezing in one of your 6 meals a day, and they give you a big boost in protein which is what you want

A good resource is:
http://www.geocities.com/mr_motorhead/fitness2.html

a good rule of thumb is that if a fitness plan sounds too good to be true, then it is.

And trust me, anything you read about in a fitness magazine is 9 times out of 10 going to be fiction

edit: also, supplements are really only useful to get yourself through a plateau. After lifting a while you'll get to the point where you aren't seeing any gains and are stuck on the same weight. Usually mixing up your routine and swapping out some exercises will solve this, but sometimes it won't. In this case taking nutritional supplements like creatine will help. But for someone just starting out you should just stick with the old standby of good diet and exercise.

[Cookeit]

Originally Posted by Happydayz

I was tall and skinny (6 feet tall, 135 pounds) and managed to pack on an extra 30 pounds of clean weight in about 5-6 months of work.

Wow.. I'm 6'1" and 175 lbs and I think I'm skinny...

[veeco]

Originally Posted by Happydayz

let me chime in here. I was tall and skinny (6 feet tall, 135 pounds) and managed to pack on an extra 30 pounds of clean weight in about 5-6 months of work.

followed by a description of a fitness plan, that looks too good to be true...

a good rule of thumb is that if a fitness plan sounds too good to be true, then it is.

Just make sure that he does some research online [...] and put together an exercise reliant on compound free weights, NOT machines.

That is a sure fire way to get injured. Free weights are great for athletes and and sports, because they don't isolate muscles, but they also require one to know what they are doing, otherwise you will get injured. Doing research online isn't going to help much, because it will not demonstrate to you what is the right thing to do, and more importantly, will not point out your mistakes in the gym.

So yes to free weights, but under supervision. Otherwise, use machines, even though they might not be as good as free weights.

A good resource is:
http://www.geocities.com/mr_motorhead/fitness2.html

A website on Geocities, with an article written by a certain sean10mm doesn't inspire confidence. Especially when the article says "My qualifications are fairly modest. I took a class called “master fitness trainer” about 10 years ago. I even remember some of it." on the first page.

And trust me, anything you read about in a fitness magazine is 9 times out of 10 going to be fiction

What about stuff on a random free hosting website by someone who won't even give their name?

But for someone just starting out you should just stick with the old standby of good diet and exercise.

That's sane advice. Go running for an hour each day, that will improve your conditioning already, and increasing one's maximum capacity to metabolize oxygen in your blood is the key to being in good shape. Then if you have time, do more weights (with a trainer). For fencing, squats, bench presses and ab crunches are a good start and pretty easy to do.

[Happydayz]

To be blunt, you are being extremely unfair in your assessment and giving little grounds to base it on.

Was my weight gain "too good to be true"? Well, no, because it was not an easy fix and the result of 5+ months of work and considerable effort in getting there. Contrast that with any of the "7 minute abs" or fitness informercials that you might see.

Sean is a credible source and is humility is tongue in cheek. The training program he referenced is run by the Army to train the trainer, and get people smart in fitness programs so that when they return to their units they can help commanders put together competent training programs. Anything that he's written can be cross referenced with the substantial medical literature out there and is in no way from left field. I reference it because it is a far easier and more condensed version of much of what is out there.

Free weights vs. machines: glad that you recognize that free weights are superior. Your primary beef with them however seems to be that you think there is a greater risk of injury. I disagree. There is no real danger of dropping the weight on you with free weights, as most will have safety catches. If this is still a concern you can switch to dumbbells over barbells and if you ever get in trouble just ditch the weights to the sides.

However your biggest beef is with form and how form is a greater danger in free weights. Again, this is not true. You can take a trip to a gym and see people in weight machines with absolutely terrible form. You dont have to be under a barbell in order to arch your back doing bench presses: you see this on machines all the time. Ditto with people doing swinging motions on bicep machines or any of the other examples of terrible form.

The only technically difficult free weight movements to pull off are the squat and maybe deadlift. However these are easy to learn provided you be willing to use extremely low weight (say just the bar) during your first few tries. Plus there are numerous issues with squat machines and strong evidence that they are actually damaging when performed according to printed instructions (in part because they do not properly mimic the free weight squat movement).

As for needing a trainer: if money is no issue, then fine. But I would be hesitant for two reasons:

1) trainers HAVE to respond to market conditions. So if someone reads in an issue of "Women's Health" about how this new fangled exercise can help spot reduce fat on your thighs, that is what most trainers will specialize and focus on in order to get clients. Never mind that spot reductions are physically impossible. In other words the incentive system in place for most trainers at most gyms is such that they are more responsive to fad workouts than actually proven ones.

2) the internet has done wonderful things for exercise. You can go to this website to get a good breakdown of how to execute any compound exercise.
http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

And if you are having particular trouble with an exercise, just film yourself doing it and post it on youtube. A search for "squat form check" will see that there is a vibrant youtube community of people asking for and receiving assistance with their form.

In other words there are ample resources out there for someone to get the help they need without having to resort to the exorbitant cost of a personal trainer

[Happydayz]

oh, one more thing:

Rhea (2003) suggests there is no practical difference in injury rate between using free weights or machines in healthy adults.

Requa RK, DeAvilla LN, Garrick JG. (1993) Injuries in recreational adult fitness activities. Am J Sports Med, 21(3):461-7.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Safety.html

Again, there really truly is a significant divide between what is popularly believed to be true about fitness and training programs, vs what is actually supported by the literature.

For example, it is impossible to spot reduce fat, that is to say work out and remove fat from a particular part of your body. There is no evidence that high repetitions / low weight burn more fat and "sculpt" your body. And there is no medical evidence that lifting is bad for people who are still growing, or that lifting will cause females to begin looking bulky or "man" like. All of these popular myths about fitness that have been proven wrong in peer reviewed medical journals.

The whole "free weight vs. machine" lifting debate is one of these. If your son is having trouble growing big so much that you want to start him on protein shakes, your best bet is to go after the low hanging fruit which is to get him into a gym and have him start doing free weights.