Incendiary threads are fun!

[Chuck F.]

One of my beginners' classes has a gentleman in it who has been doing a little research on his own. He found Adam Crown's website for In Ferro Veritas (www.classicalfencing.com).

The following week, he asked me to explain the difference between "classical fencing" and what he had seen at a nearby college tournament recently.

How would you have responded? Can you think of a good analogy from any other sport, etc.?

(I had a hard time answering him. I wanted to be as objective as possible...)

[slowgraffiti515]

i had a good answer...but then i saw the word "objective" and i got nothin

[swordsen]

CF and SF are two different sports grown from the same roots.

Think NFL and Arena Football.

[jkdjeff]

Sidestepping the actual argument...

I just have to say that that is one of the most pointlessly inflammatory websites I have ever read.

[leapyear]

Having done both, I think the biggest difference is that the conventions of classical fencing are designed to force you to do more bladework. CFers talk a lot about "historical accuracy" and "what would really work"... but CF isn't and wouldn't. ("in ferro veritas" is about as annoyingly pretentious as you can get, eh?)

But it IS a fun game. (If, like me, you enjoy complicated bladework and are annoyed by techniques that discourage it, such as the flick, the whipover, the attack-remise-dodge, the bind-up-the-blades-until-a-halt, the jam-the-distance-and-jab, and so on.) The down side is that so few people do it that once you get reasonably good, you have barely a handful of interesting opponents.

[jeff]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/poseur sets perspective.

[Chuck F.]

Originally Posted by jkdjeff

Sidestepping the actual argument...

I just have to say that that is one of the most pointlessly inflammatory websites I have ever read.

But don't you love his mustache?

[leapyear]

He may be a pompous poseur, but his website has monkeys. Political monkeys, no less.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by leapyear

He may be a pompous poseur, but his website has monkeys. Political monkeys, no less.

Yeah, he may be a tosser, but I like his politics.

[RITFencing]

As an aside, Chuck, where ARE you coaching these days? Same as before?

[erooMynohtnA]

Originally Posted by swordsen

CF and SF are two different sports grown from the same roots.

Think NFL and Arena Football.

Fencing is to classical fencing as football is to powder puff football.

[mrbiggs]

Classical fencing seeks to reenact the fencing one might have seen at various points in history. The exact time and customs followed depend on the group.

Sport fencing has a set of rules that restrict fencers to actions that have a basis in historical fencing, but the fencers themselves are unconcerned with the history and simply want to fence for fun or to win in accordance with the rules and the sportsmanship that governs other sports.

[veeco]

Originally Posted by Chuck F.

But don't you love his mustache?

In the same vein of incendiary remarks, I would add that all fencers who wear a mustache are dorks who pretend to be d'Artagnan...

Now beards, on the other hand...

[OROD]

From their website:

In olympic fencing, the emphasis is on touching the opponent, in Classical Fencing, it is on not being touched.

So, apparently the best way to be a classical fencer is to not do any classical fencing. Woohoo... then I must be the greatest classical fencer that ever lived, having NEVER actually been touched in a classical fencing bout. Suck it down biatch!

.

[OROD]

I godamn love this website, it's just a goldmine of stuff.

Classical Fencing does not preclude athleticism. On the contrary, it demands it as much—or more—than olympic fencing does.

Tell it how it is brother. And for those of you that doubt, I think this video will put an end to it.

Nuff said.

.

[veeco]

Oh my... If it the emphasis is on not getting hit, how come the guy on the right seems to let himself being touched on straight attacks from out of distance?

[peet]

hoo boy o boy, that's some fancy-fancy bladework!

The whole time i'm thinking "hot DAMN! how can they get that freakin' close, and not just reach out and freakin' HIT!"

-p

[Allen Evans]

Because, at close distance, the first action each of the fencers make is to attack the opponent's blade, and not the opponent.

AE

[MUHSfencing]

Originally Posted by Chuck F.

One of my beginners' classes has a gentleman in it who has been doing a little research on his own. He found Adam Crown's website for In Ferro Veritas (www.classicalfencing.com).

The following week, he asked me to explain the difference between "classical fencing" and what he had seen at a nearby college tournament recently.

How would you have responded? Can you think of a good analogy from any other sport, etc.?

(I had a hard time answering him. I wanted to be as objective as possible...)

This is a tough question to be objective about from either "side". The easy (& entertaining) answers do tend to be a bit unfair.

I don't particularly care for the sports analogy myself, as they seem to confuse the matter further.

The best way I can think of right now to differentiate between the two is that the ultimate purpose of sport fencing is competitive success under modern (somewhat arbitrarily standardized) rules. The ultimate purpose of classical fencing is to train for dueling / self defense with a sword in the traditional manner, the exact definition of which varies a bit from teacher to teacher.

I don't mean to make value judgments about either approach, and there certainly is a wide range of individual interpretation, especially on the traditional side of things.

And of course, we're really all about having fun. Being an excellent competitive fencer isn't exactly a guarantee of fame and glory. And no one fights duels anymore, so classical fencers are all wasting their time. And becoming a fencing teacher really cannot be a great career move economically.

[jaketheranger]

I have two experiences with classical fencers, both turned out fairly humiliating for the CF.

First was at a party....no we hadn't been drinking. Yet. There was some schmoe there explaining, at length, how he had been training for five years and that he was confident that he could defeat ANYONE in a duel...unless that someone was a more competent classical fencer. He then went on to explain how sport fencing was the most childish sport imaginable and that he'd have no problem wiping the floor with the lot of us.

Mind you, I was in the next room...so I didn't actually hear this originally. My friends did, and they knew I was a pretty competent fencer. So then: The Challenge. The partygoers came to me with the prospect of a duel which, of course, I immediately accepted. Mr. CF changed his tune. Peer pressure and humiliation won the day and he accepted the challenge after much goading.

I had a couple of epees in my car and a mask. Another mask was sent for...a friend had to go get it. Now the CF didn't like my epees...toys he called them...so we had to improvise and ended up with these longish dowels that were a little bit longer than an epee and thinner than a broom handle. Horribly balanced, no bell, and slippery but I was just in this for fun.

We fenced in the back yard, on grass. He used very little footwork, and he didn't seem to understand the first thing about gaining "fencing distance". After a bit of frustrating him with absence of blade for about thirty seconds, I feinted to four, took the blade in six and fleched. I let it sting (just to let him know I could have 'run him through') a little into his right pectoral, but released quickly so I would break the dowel....all of this is pretty hard to do with a piece of wood.

He then proceeded to tell me that what I did "wasn't fair". A fleche exposed the body and was considered too dangerous a move. I explained that I had control of his blade and didn't consider it at all dangerous. Plus, this is supposed to be training for a real duel, right?

So we go at it again. This time he comes at me with a beautiful lunge (I have to admit it)...at about a quarter of the speed a foot out of distance necessary to actually accomplish what he wanted to do, which was hit me. I,admittedly, did a fairly poor parry in 7, crushed the distance (avoiding the blade), grabbed him by the weapon wrist with my non-weapon hand and did a nicely controlled forward momentum hip throw on him onto the lawn. In retrospect, I guess I should have put my blade to his throat while he was down. I still kick myself for not doing it.

Apparently that was also "unfair". That was the end of that.

Okay, that was a long post...let me know if you also want to hear about the time I fenced the "maestro" doing demonstrations at a Ren Faire.