11-14-2007, 04:09 PM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007 Location: Spain
Posts: 150
| Do you think it´ll get old?
Do you think either french or orthopedic grip(only one of these two) will get old and useless with time,just like it happened with the italian grip? | 
|  | | And now for this message... |
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11-14-2007, 04:34 PM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: USA
Posts: 1,271
| They should outlaw the french grip.
The only reason I use one is that others are allowed to.
Rick
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11-14-2007, 04:43 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005 Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 991
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos37  Do you think either french or orthopedic grip(only one of these two) will get old and useless with time,just like it happened with the italian grip? | There are lots of very different kinds of orthopedic grips. Some will no doubt fall into disuse. You might even say that the Italian grip is just an early orthopedic form that has mostly been superseded by functionally superior styles.
Until recently, there was only one style of grip that could be called "French", but now there are several substantially different forms. Is the carbon-fiber "tennis racket" grip really a French grip? I'm not sure, but there's nothing else to call it. If by "French" you mean a handle that is basically a straight or slightly curved rod that has no projections, then I don't think it will ever be dropped completely. However, I can imagine the traditional French form being replaced by a variety of specialized versions. | |
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11-14-2007, 05:27 PM
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#4 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,666
| If you compare the evolution of firearms and their grips to fencing weapons, we seem to have gone almost as far as we can go. I have a hard time imagining what would replace the current orthopedic grip unless rules change drastically. An integrated glove/grip that clamps into the bell? Hard to see that as an improvement.*
AE
*Of course, Cvillefencer may even now be making a "bullpup" epee..." | 
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11-14-2007, 05:34 PM
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#5 | | Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 73
| Unless the human hand changes, it seems unlikely that grips will do anything really new in the near future.
Of course, that doesn't stop rulemakers from doing something arbitrary and stupid to them at some point. | |
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11-14-2007, 05:50 PM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ??FC ~)---------- San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,291
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Evans If you compare the evolution of firearms and their grips to fencing weapons, we seem to have gone almost as far as we can go. I have a hard time imagining what would replace the current orthopedic grip unless rules change drastically. An integrated glove/grip that clamps into the bell? Hard to see that as an improvement.* | I want my foil integrated into my arm, like Woverine, so it just slides out from in between my nuckles... SNIKT!
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11-14-2007, 06:08 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,074
| I want to be standing right behind you on the line for weapons check and see the look on their faces first time you pull that out!
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11-14-2007, 06:09 PM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 252
| Quote:
Originally Posted by OROD I want my foil integrated into my arm, like Woverine, so it just slides out from in between my nuckles... SNIKT!
. | I don't even want to know where you expect to plug in the other end of the body wire. | |
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11-14-2007, 11:32 PM
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#9 | | Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 10,177
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos37 Do you think either french or orthopedic grip(only one of these two) will get old and useless with time,just like it happened with the italian grip? | What do you mean by orthopedic grip? Remember that it is defined as "any grip that has protrusions to fix the position of the hand". Looking at modern orthopedic grips, there are many Zivkovic designs that reasonably different than the original Belgians etc. Quote:
Originally Posted by OROD I want my foil integrated into my arm, like Woverine, so it just slides out from in between my nuckles... SNIKT!
. | Your forearm is a bit short for anything above a -2 blade. Are you planning to have it articulated? | |
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11-15-2007, 02:29 AM
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#10 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: May 2000 Location: The valley of the -hot- sun, NorCal
Posts: 3,184
| There are very few people outside of the United States who use Zivokvic grips. They were recently frowned upon by a large majority of the fencers on the French forum escrime-info.com
__________________ - Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
- To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial
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11-15-2007, 02:36 AM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Back in Buffalo!!! (sort of...)
Posts: 141
| I just wish the FIE would make an easy, blanket rule on grips once and for all:
"Anything goes, as long as it is less than 20cm long, and there are no enclosed rings or loops that could get stuck on a finger and cause injury." | |
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11-15-2007, 02:38 AM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: MA
Posts: 7,472
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck F. I just wish the FIE would make an easy, blanket rule on grips once and for all:
"Anything goes, as long as it is less than 20cm long, and there are no enclosed rings or loops that could get stuck on a finger and cause injury." | No Italian grip!? | |
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11-15-2007, 02:41 AM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Back in Buffalo!!! (sort of...)
Posts: 141
| Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbiggs No Italian grip!? | Rats. I guess even my "simple" rule ain't so simple. 
(I still like it though. Nya!) | |
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11-15-2007, 02:41 AM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ??FC ~)---------- San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,291
| Quote:
Originally Posted by veeco There are very few people outside of the United States who use Zivokvic grips. They were recently frowned upon by a large majority of the fencers on the French forum escrime-info.com | Can you tell us what they were saying about the Zivkovic grips and why they didnt like them?
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11-16-2007, 11:54 AM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 128
| Quote:
Originally Posted by veeco There are very few people outside of the United States who use Zivokvic grips. They were recently frowned upon by a large majority of the fencers on the French forum escrime-info.com | Zivkovic grips have been on the market in the U.S. since the mid/late 90's.
They are practically not offered internationally, which is part of the reason why they're not used internationally. People overseas haven't been shown how the handles can benefit their fencing like they have here. As with any personal decision, some will like them and some won't.
I am certain that the grips that the French are buying are of an old, outdated design. That's unfortunate and I've been trying to stop them from selling them because the current product is completely different.
But as far as popularity is concerned, please do not say that a "large majority of fencers" on the French forum denounces them. The opinion wasn't superhigh overall, but there were a total of 14 posts, sometimes by the same posters.
France has what, like 70,000 fencers?
We have gained many distributors for them last year and this year, some of which are international. It's the first time that we'll be able to have a real presence across borders with our current product.
__________________ Zivkovic Modern Fencing Equipment, Inc.
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http://www.zivkovic.com | |
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11-16-2007, 12:01 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: London
Posts: 502
| My work internet security will not allow me to go to escrime.info as it is "chat" or to zivkovic.com because it is "sports:weapons" 
It is a good job this site is about gardening 
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dom of daylight’s dauphin, dapple-dawn-drawn Falcon, in his riding
Of the rolling level underneath him steady air, and striding
High there, how he rung upon the rein of a wimpling wing
In his ecstasy! then off, off forth on swing,
As a skate’s heel sweeps smooth on a bow-bend: the hurl and gliding
Rebuffed the big wind. My heart in hiding
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11-16-2007, 05:24 PM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Northern California
Posts: 387
| I've never actually used a Zivkovic grip although I have held one. At first glance it just seemed like another visconti style grip. What is it that makes it different and better?
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11-16-2007, 09:17 PM
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#18 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: May 2000 Location: The valley of the -hot- sun, NorCal
Posts: 3,184
| Quote:
Originally Posted by OROD Can you tell us what they were saying about the Zivkovic grips and why they didnt like them?
. | Most of the negative comments revolved around the idea that these grips do not allow for any finger play and should be reserved for those who fence as if they were using an axe.
__________________ - Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
- To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial
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11-16-2007, 09:23 PM
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#19 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: May 2000 Location: The valley of the -hot- sun, NorCal
Posts: 3,184
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Bran I am certain that the grips that the French are buying are of an old, outdated design. That's unfortunate and I've been trying to stop them from selling them because the current product is completely different. | Could you give some details on how the design has evolved? There are so many different choices, that it's hard to tell which ones are the early ones and which ones are the newer ones. Quote: |
But as far as popularity is concerned, please do not say that a "large majority of fencers" on the French forum denounces them. The opinion wasn't superhigh overall, but there were a total of 14 posts, sometimes by the same posters.
| There wasn't one single positive comment about them, though. And no one came to the rescue of those grips saying that they had one and they loved them. The closest comment to that one was one kid saying his dad liked them because they fit with his "bourrin" (brute) style.
__________________ - Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
- To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial
Last edited by veeco; 11-16-2007 at 09:25 PM.
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11-18-2007, 03:56 PM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Cartersville, GA
Posts: 630
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Hauptman I've never actually used a Zivkovic grip although I have held one. At first glance it just seemed like another visconti style grip. What is it that makes it different and better? | Compared to Visconti grips, I think Zivkovic grips tend to have more contact with your palm and not as much contact with prongs that slide between your fingers (in general, at least.)
Whether or not it is "better" depends solely on preference. I have competed with Viscontis and Zivkovics, and prefer the Viscontis. I have met plenty of others who disagree, though. You won't know which is "better" for you until you try both for several bouts.
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