Epee 2.0 by Johan Harmenberg

[Downtown]

I am about half way through this book and am curious about what others think that have read this book.

Note: The author suggest that you should have been fencing about five years before you read it.

So far I am still on Mr. Harmenberg.s life in fencing, which I found very interesting. I have not gotten into the realm of tactics as of yet.

[noodle]

never heard of it.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by noodle

never heard of it.

It's just been published, so not having heard of it isn't much of a commentary (relative to not having heard of a fencing book that's been floating around for a decade or two).

-B

[noodle]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

It's just been published, so not having heard of it isn't much of a commentary (relative to not having heard of a fencing book that's been floating around for a decade or two).

-B

to rephrase: i couldn't find it on the cursory search i did.

[Dave]

Sword play appear to be selling/publishing it.

http://www.swordplaybooks.com/

google is watching you.

[Allen Evans]

I've read it through twice already. It's an interesting look at the evolution from the technique-rich epee of the 1950s and 1960s to the "tempo"-rich epee of modern times. It also confirms some of the things I have been thinking about epee for the last year (and am almost ready to put out in this, which is still in draft form: http://home.earthlink.net/~allenevans59/EPEETEMPO.HTML).

The book suffers from being from a single perspective, written completely from Mr. Harembeg's point of view, but there was certainly no attempt to represent it as anything but that. He brings up a lot of things I would like to see other authors explore.

He seems a thoughtful, smart guy. I'd like to see more by him. If you are an epee fencer and have a spare $30 bucks, it's worth the read.

AE

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

I've read it through twice already. It's an interesting look at the evolution from the technique-rich epee of the 1950s and 1960s to the "tempo"-rich epee of modern times. It also confirms some of the things I have been thinking about epee for the last year (and am almost ready to put out in this, which is still in draft form: http://home.earthlink.net/~allenevans59/EPEETEMPO.HTML).

good read. i don't think i ever got to comment on your blog post with my thoughts, i think i will now.

[piste off]

I am very interested in the book, and was planning on getting it.

It is an interesting comment though, that you are halfway through it and are still only in the "bio" section.

Rick

[Rick Shellhouse]

Rick....

Come to the silent auction at Barbara Lynch's Charity RYC....we have all 27 of Swordplays fencing books including this one we will be auctioning off...


:-)


Rick

[piste off]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

I've read it through twice already. It's an interesting look at the evolution from the technique-rich epee of the 1950s and 1960s to the "tempo"-rich epee of modern times. It also confirms some of the things I have been thinking about epee for the last year (and am almost ready to put out in this, which is still in draft form: http://home.earthlink.net/~allenevans59/EPEETEMPO.HTML).

Thanks for the link. Probably one of the best pieces on fencing that I have ever seen.

I've seen one or two of your other writings (e.g. TBB/Beck). You really should write a book.

Rick

[Falcon (XB :)]

We were fortunate to have Ruggero Ceci (who co-authored the review article "Fencing: Biomedical and Psychological Factors" with Harmenberg) speaking to an audience of youngsters at our club. Amongst other things he had with him was the draft of Harmenberg's book. It was entertaining to read and have an old friend comment on a few of the main thrusts within the work.

A very interesting fencer and scholar - remarkable for his somewhat iconoclastic but very creative theories about what exactly REALLY makes a difference on the piste. Always interesting to listen to someone who has the results to back up slightly revolutionary ideas. (World Champion Buenos Aires77, Olympic Champion Moscow 80 + several A-grades + teams)

An interesting point to ponder is Harmenberg's thinking about martial arts in general and the application back into fencing - given that he was influenced by MIT coach Eric Sollee's understanding of boxing and Japanese martial arts, as well as Lee's counter-classical incorporation of fencing theory and practice into Jeet Kune Do (fencing into martial arts).

[JEC]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

I've read it through twice already. It's an interesting look at the evolution from the technique-rich epee of the 1950s and 1960s to the "tempo"-rich epee of modern times. It also confirms some of the things I have been thinking about epee for the last year (and am almost ready to put out in this, which is still in draft form: http://home.earthlink.net/~allenevans59/EPEETEMPO.HTML).

Allen,
I am just waiting for you to gather your thoughts together into an Epee Book. I and others have enjoyed reading your articles, and look forward to such publication.
JEC

[RkfdFencer]

I had an e-mail from Swordplay advertising it a couple of weeks ago. Here are some of the selling points listed in that e-mail:

It's also a practical book of instruction:

how to win with less talent

how to "kill" classical fencing

why "all they do is jump around and crash into each other"

why it's all Johan Harmenberg's "fault"
I found the win with less talent part odd and disregarded the message. I'm actually trying to develop more talent..

[darius]

I found the win with less talent part odd and disregarded the message. I'm actually trying to develop more talent.

Ideally, if you know how to win with less talent, you could use those lessons to win bigger with more talent. It's a poor sales pitch.

DFP has been saying it's similar to Gilbert's "Winning Ugly", which I find very apt. Gilbert's prose is better, but I'm sure he had some very good ghostwriters.

However, if you can get past Harmenberg's terminology and some bizarre prose, Epee 2.0 is probably the best dissection of applied tactics in fencing I've read. The "paradigm" he talks about can be applied to any of the three weapons.

darius

[frnk]

Originally Posted by RkfdFencer

I found the win with less talent part odd and disregarded the message. I'm actually trying to develop more talent..

As I understood it, the less is not relative to yourself, but relative to the opponent. Everything else equal, more talent is of course preferable, but one needs a strategy for dealing with fencers who are simply better in the traditional sense.

[RITFencing]

As I understood it, it meant to get better results by making better use of the talent you already have.

[RkfdFencer]

I found it odd in the marketing sense and didn't really try to place it in context.

With some of the responses here saying there is some value to the book, I may pick it up at some point.

Oh, I also agree with the notion that Allen should write more and get published.

[ysbadadden]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

I've read it through twice already. It's an interesting look at the evolution from the technique-rich epee of the 1950s and 1960s to the "tempo"-rich epee of modern times. It also confirms some of the things I have been thinking about epee for the last year (and am almost ready to put out in this, which is still in draft form: http://home.earthlink.net/~allenevans59/EPEETEMPO.HTML).

The book suffers from being from a single perspective, written completely from Mr. Harembeg's point of view, but there was certainly no attempt to represent it as anything but that. He brings up a lot of things I would like to see other authors explore.

He seems a thoughtful, smart guy. I'd like to see more by him. If you are an epee fencer and have a spare $30 bucks, it's worth the read.

AE

Looked at the link -- really excellent stuff here. It deserves to be extended into book form. Problem: the word "tempo" is used in at least four different senses, some of them mutually exclusive.

[Allen Evans]

From Cues in Tempo on the same website (different article):

What is tempo? Everyone uses this word, but no one really defines it. I like what Coach Gary Copeland, of Northern Colorado Fencers Club says about tempo:

"This concept of the tempo is so elusive that many coaches don't even mention it. It is a concept that defies description, because it is not rooted in a fixed distance or motion. It is so variable, so transitory, that anything written of it doesn't quite describe it; in fact, any description can be shown to be wrong under certain circumstances. Often coaches avoid the issue all together and hope that the student learns it on the strip."(1)

[Allen Evans]

Ys...even so, pm me (or email me) and let me know your objections...this is still a draft and it's not quite fully tuned. Either I need to make some changes, or expand the explanations.

AE