Epee 2.0 by Johan Harmenberg

[Jason]

That's silly. A word that you can't define is a poorly chosen one. The word "tempo" is a problem, not because it's an esoteric concept, but because it is used by different people to mean different things. In other words, it's a useless term. Better than trying to force a unified meaning out of it, one should use the assorted individual words that clearly express the ideas confused with "tempo". An easy place to start is to stick to the english language when expressing fencing ideas (to an english-speaking audience, of course).

[Allen Evans]

To greater extent, I agree with you -- although one of the strengths of the English language is that some words have very ambiguous meanings and context often sets the definition. Because fencing has so many things that happen in it, and only a few English words to describe those things, there is the danger of getting bogged down in endless descriptions of actions and distances.

As I said, this is a draft document (I've turned it over to a coach/editor to go through) but I thought it was complete enough to give the link and generate some discussion. I'm going through it this weekend, actually, in light of some of the comments I've received, and tightening it up.

AE

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by ysbadadden

the word "tempo" is used in at least four different senses

Wouldn't want to always use the same tempo, now would you? Pretty much every coach out there tells their fencers to vary the tempo, no reason Allen shouldn't as well.... :)

-B

[piste off]

I just got done reading Epee 2.0, pretty much in one reading with kids yelling about. It is the kind of book you probably need to go through at least twice, as there is really a lot there.

A lot of current fencers may not see much in the book, as some of the things Mr. Harmenberg introduced are commonplace in today's epee fencing. It was interesting from my persepective, since I witnessed the influence over the last 3 decades and knew the source and some of the players (Vaggo, Czarnecki).

I am grateful for the book, as it is a much more interesting view into fencing than the typical 101 offerings. It also sheds light onto what was a big influence on today's epee fencing.

Rick

[Allen Evans]

I would have liked to have seen the author explore the evolution of the system he develops over the course of the book. Does Haremberg feel that his system has evolved in any way? Has anything new come out to challenge it?

If anyone attended the talk he recently gave, I wonder if he mentioned this at all?

AE

[Hauptman]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

To greater extent, I agree with you -- although one of the strengths of the English language is that some words have very ambiguous meanings and context often sets the definition. Because fencing has so many things that happen in it, and only a few English words to describe those things, there is the danger of getting bogged down in endless descriptions of actions and distances.

As I said, this is a draft document (I've turned it over to a coach/editor to go through) but I thought it was complete enough to give the link and generate some discussion. I'm going through it this weekend, actually, in light of some of the comments I've received, and tightening it up.

AE

I read your draft and enjoyed it, as I have many of your articles. But the article really worked after your attempt to re-define tempo. Your attempt to re-define it left me feeling just as muddled as before.

If the basics of fencing are timing, distance, and tactics then why does tempo have to include all three? Can't we leave tempo as a factor of timing as it is in common usage and particularly in music? I see your logic in what you are trying to teach, and agree with it, but using the word "tempo" to cover all of that just makes it less easily understood for me.

As I said, I enjoy your articles, and this is just my personal impression; I'm sure others vary.

[Allen Evans]

We'll see if the editing I'm doing will help clarify the article much better. I'll put the finished product on the web site by the end of the month.

I've always been uncomfortable with defining the word "tempo" in fencing as it is used in music. It seems a little constricting and one-dimensional. But then, that's just me, and I confess to not having had much musical training.

AE

[MarkoB]

Tempo seems to combine rhythm and speed and timing. I think it's a word that can be used in that way because it conveys something of the feel necessary to fencing.
Strictly defined, of course, it just refers to the pace of an activity. That's the dictionary definition.

[Greg]

It is very interesting. I really enjoyed how the MIT fencers took an engineer's approach to solving the problems of how to improve epee. The only thing he points out is that his methods have been widely adopted by most other top level epee fencers these days. Regardless, its a great read for any new or intermediate epee fencer seeking to improve. He really simplifies the sport down to several manageable points.

[Stephan Khinoy]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

I would have liked to have seen the author explore the evolution of the system he develops over the course of the book. Does Haremberg feel that his system has evolved in any way? Has anything new come out to challenge it?

If anyone attended the talk he recently gave, I wonder if he mentioned this at all?

AE

Full disclosure: I publish the book.
I also attended the talks and yes, Johan has been asked that last question: has anything come along to challenge the "new paradigm?" He doesn't think so. Remember, he's talking about "Olympic touch" when the next touch is desperately needed by both fencers. People still fence using classical thinking, but the new paradigm answers it.
Probably an answer will come along, or fencing will stagnate. I hope to be around to let everybody know when it does.

[AdamH]

Excellent book. Read it in an hour flying home. Ate up the content; yummy.

edit: Having just read 'Fencing is my Life', by Sergei Golubitsky and 'Angry White Pyjamas' by Robert Twigger, have to admit it was exactly what I was looking for, even for a foilist.

But let's set expectations for the individual reader's benefit: aye, it's alright.