Joseph Vince foil

[Agtroid]

I am brand new to fencing, but I've had this foil for about.......6 years, I just actually looked at it, and the bell has an imprint that says Joseph Vince on it. Well, I came and looked up Joseph Vince, and now I know who he is, but I still know nothing about the foil.
Anyone happen to have any info, or know where I can get some?

[mifencer]

Ok, you got my curiosity: who's Joseph Vince? Is in the same line as in "who's John Gault?"

<small>[ 08-22-2002, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: mifencer ]</small>

[Agtroid]

Apparently he was a fencing master from Hungary who came to the U.S. during the 1920's.
In 1925 he won the U.S. national championship for sabre, he's written at least one book I can find, and had a company called Joseph Vince Co. that manufactured fencing equipment.(I think, I found an obscure reference to a suit against a Joseph Vince Co in reference to a mask, so that's just an assumption on my part.)
I can't find any info on that company, or really anything else on him.
Since I was given the foil, I'm mostly just interested in the circumstances behind it, but I suppose I'm probably not gonna find much.
Never hurts to try though.

[mfp]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">Originally posted by mifencer:
<strong>Ok, you got my curiosity: who's Joseph Vince?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Helvetica, Arial">He's a famous fencing master who lost his favorite foil several years back. The foil had his name on it -- has anyone seen it?



Here's a link to an old advertisement featuring Joseph Vince. It promotes cigarettes -- just wait till the FIE finds out!

<a href="http://paperboynews.com/inventorydetail.asp?number=y8133" target="_blank">http://paperboynews.com/inventorydetai l.asp?number=y8133</a>

[I wonder what Joseph Vince died of]

The headline reads "Nerve Strain? I know something about that too, Mr. Fencer"

Some of the oldtimers at American Fencing might be familiar with the Joseph Vince Company and its products. AmFence was a codefendant in the lawsuit mentioned above.

That lawsuit is frequently cited in product liability cases. [Garcia v. Joseph Vince Co. (1978) 84 Cal.App.3d 868]

Garcia's eye was injured when an opponent's sabre broke through a fencing mask worn by Garcia during a fencing bout. He sued American Fencer Supply as the alleged manufacturer of the sabre and Joseph Vince Company and Junice T. Mori (Vince) as the manufacturer-supplier of the mask.

The court granted a nonsuit (dismissal) in favor of the Vince Co, the manufacturer of the fencing mask. It was appealed and the appellate court affirmed, holding that the plaintiff had not met the initial burden requiring proof that the product was used in an intended or reasonably foreseeable, manner. The court concluded that because the mask was penetrated by a sharp edged sabre, which can penetrate any standard fencing mask, and because the fencing rules required a rounded tip on the sabre, the mask had been subjected to a use for which it was not intended.

Daniel Dechaine, armorer for the United States Olympic Team of the 1976 Summer Olympic Games and inventor of machines used throughout the world by fencing organizations for testing purposes, testified that it was inconceivable how a legal, standard weapon could have penetrated the mask. No testimony was presented that a fencing mask either exists or can be designed which will prevent penetration by a sharp-edged sabre. To the contrary the unrebutted testimony was that any mask can be penetrated by a sharp-edged sabre.

The courts also ruled in favor of American Fencing and Vince in the case of the blade. Irrespective of proving the defectiveness of the blade caused the injury to him, Garcia established only that the blade was made and supplied by either (a) American or by (b) Vince, not by both; but which one of the two was unknown. There was no evidence that the blade was in fact known to have been manufactured by American or to have been manufactured by Vince. Since no one was able to say from which source the blade came, the court ruled there was insufficient evidence to permit the issue of liability to be presented to a jury. A jury with such evidence would be purely speculating as to who should be liable.

<small>[ 08-24-2002, 02:39 AM: Message edited by: mfp ]</small>

[DHCJr]

Joseph Vince Co. did go out of business in the 60's and their stock was bought out by Southern California Fencers Supply. They were still selling some of that stock when they closed in 2001. They also bought out most of the stock from Castello when they went out of business.