Shakespear Fans

[Lemonaide]

A while ago, I remember that someone mentioned that Shakespear's name could have been a Nome De Plume. That he took his name from the 46th Psalm. As the King James Version was published when he was 46 years old. His name was derived by taking the 46th word from the beginning and the 46th word from the ending and hence: Shakespear.


1 God is our refuge and strength,
A very present help in trouble.
2 Therefore we will not fear,
Even though the earth be removed,
And though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;
3 Though its waters roar and be troubled,
Though the mountains shake with its swelling. Selah

4 There is a river whose streams shall make glad the city of God,
The holy place of the tabernacle of the Most High.
5 God is in the midst of her, she shall not be moved;
God shall help her, just at the break of dawn.
6 The nations raged, the kingdoms were moved;
He uttered His voice, the earth melted.

7 The LORD of hosts is with us;
The God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah

8 Come, behold the works of the LORD,
Who has made desolations in the earth.
9 He makes wars cease to the end of the earth;
He breaks the bow and cuts the spear in two;
He burns the chariot in the fire.

10 Be still, and know that I am God;
I will be exalted among the nations,
I will be exalted in the earth!

11 The LORD of hosts is with us;
The God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah

[Timo]

That or the bible code is real and we're all going to die from a nuclear war.

[lefty_monster]

I believe in Pascal's Wager and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[Rabid Monk]

Pascal's Wager is inherently flawed, and at best an attempt to convince people to pretend to believe in the god of their choice.
(i.e. What if you are believing in the wrong god? All of a sudden it isn't a simple 4-square anymore.)

As for the flying spaghetti monster, well, he can't be disproven, so let's all dress like pirates!

Yarr!

edit: And I always thought it was Shakespeare?

[Lemonaide]

I know what you mean, but it was translated a long time ago, and the spelling was more olde. Then I wondered, if the name was taken from the Bible as a sort of good fortune thing as the Bard was a 'writer' and some people had speculated that the name was derived, who was the Bard then? So I wondered, under King James' rule, who did the translations, and maybe it was one of them?

[Zilverzmurfen]

Originally Posted by Lemonaide

So I wondered, under King James' rule, who did the translations, and maybe it was one of them?

Or several.

[lefty_monster]

Originally Posted by Rabid Monk

Yarr!

edit: And I always thought it was Shakespeare?

Yar! Thar be different spellings for different time periods, matey. Uniform spelling rules be a rather recent invention, yar!

Originally Posted by Lemonaide

I know what you mean, but it was translated a long time ago, and the spelling was more olde. Then I wondered, if the name was taken from the Bible as a sort of good fortune thing as the Bard was a 'writer' and some people had speculated that the name was derived, who was the Bard then? So I wondered, under King James' rule, who did the translations, and maybe it was one of them?

And who did the translations? Does anyone know that?

[Zilverzmurfen]

Originally Posted by lefty_monster

And who did the translations? Does anyone know that?

Wasn't it Mr. Fish? You know Babble Fish...


Ouch, that's bad! *ducks for cover*

[MyrddinsPrecint]

I know, I know, troll, but I can help myself........

WHAT????

There was a real historical figure named William Shakespeare. There is some quibble about whether or not he wrote the plays credited to him, but there's no doubt that there was an actor by the name around. Or are you saying that someone wrote the plays, decided on the name based on a ridiculous formula, and THEN was shocked to find out that the guy really existed, and would take credit?






gah.

[Miglin]

I still support the notion that Shakespeare was just a pseudonym taken on by many different writers of the time. Think of it as a running joke: Each of them puts on a play with ridiculously long monologues and derivative, done-before stories.

[Lemonaide]

No, I mean, I wonder who did the translation of the Bible for King James, that may have been the real Shakespear, who then, as a writer searching for a pen name, decided to take a passage from the Bible to give himself a new writers name, like Mark Twain. As we all know - naturally, Mark Twain was not the real name of the author by the same name.

Troll yourself.

[Miglin]

Originally Posted by Lemonaide

No, I mean, I wonder who did the translation of the Bible for King James, that may have been the real Shakespear, who then, as a writer searching for a pen name, decided to take a passage from the Bible to give himself a new writers name, like Mark Twain. As we all know - naturally, Mark Twain was not the real name of the author by the same name.

Troll yourself.

I'm attributing the pseudonym to many authors, though, not just one. It could have been any number of people.

[Lemonaide]

Well, I just looked up the name of the translator for King James' Bible and one was named was Miles Smith. I wonder if his name wasn't spelled Miles Smythe. According to the following article, which I have edited for length, there were 54 translators. Many of them spoke, read, and wrote in a variety of languages, including: Latin, Hebrew, and Greek. It would not be so impossible for a scholar of their rank to be able to not only be included on the tremendous task of a Translation of the Bible, but also be otherwise occupied as a Bard.
Here's what I found:

B. Proficiency in the Languages
1. Collectively
a. Latin was universally taught. The name grammar school comes from the teaching of Latin grammar in the schools of the young. Good students commonly entered university at the age of fifteen or sixteen where proficiency in Latin was required for entrance. This only makes sense because all the classes except those teaching other languages were taught in Latin.
b. Greek was usually taught in the grammar schools alongside Latin
c. Hebrew was taught in a number of the grammar schools, but was certainly prominent in the universities.
d. Translators to the Readers says of the translators, “Therefore such were thought upon, as could say modestly with Saint Hierome [Jerome], ‘Both we have learned the Hebrew tongue in part, and in the Latin we have been exercised almost from our very cradle.’”
2. Individually – a look at individual King James translators
a. Lancelot Andrews was recognized as the master of 15 languages. Each year, during a month-long summer vacation, he made it a practice to learn a new language.
b. John Bois had read the Bible in Hebrew by the age of five. It was said that he could at any time turn to any word in the Greek New Testament.
c. Miles Smith found Hebrew, Chaldee, Syriac, and Arabic almost as familiar as his native tongue. He was called “a very walking library” because of his extensive knowledge of history and literature. He authored the King James Preface, The Translators to the Readers.
d. This kind of knowledge in the languages could be repeated in other translators. We can believe that it was the same for other translators of which we know little of their personal lives
C. Proficiency in the English Language.
1. At the time of the King James Bible, the English language was at a point of great maturity. English literature was at its peak with writers like William Shakespeare, Francis Bacon, John Donne, Ben Jonson, and others in their prime.
2. The King James translators were accomplished students of the English language and were authors of a number of books. Their work on the Bible was certainly enabled by God.
3. According to the Britannica Encyclopedia in reference to the King James translation, “The impact of the Hebrew upon the revisers was so pronounced that they seem to have made a conscious effort to imitate its rhythm and style in the Old Testament. The English of the New Testament actually turned out to be superior to its Greek original.”


p.s. Lancelot was a real Knight as well, and does anyone remember the Tales of Lancelot? I remember watching a program every week called Lancelot.

[Hollywood Troy]

His name was a pseudonym, but you're putting way too much thought into it. The way I heard it was Shakespeare was a play on words, as a writer writes with a pen- aka "shaking" a small spear.

[Inquartata]

Well, but L is clearly talking about a different guy: Shakespear, without the terminal 'e', the well-known brandisher of fruit.

Mangos, lemons and pears. ( Oh my! )

[parrythis]

Originally Posted by Timo

That or the bible code is real and we're all going to die from a nuclear war.

Many have already died in the first nuclear war.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Hollywood Troy

His name was a pseudonym, but you're putting way too much thought into it. The way I heard it was Shakespeare was a play on words, as a writer writes with a pen- aka "shaking" a small spear.

shakespeare is a stratford family name, generations old before william was born.
not a pseudonym.

[Lemonaide]

That's very possible, but the topic was brought up in my Elizabethean Age class so I had to investigate.

[Have At You]

Originally Posted by Lemonaide

So I wondered, under King James' rule, who did the translations, and maybe it was one of them?

There's an excellent book on this, "God's Secretaries: The Making of the King James Bible" by Adam Nicolson.

[Phaeton]

Does it matter who Shakespeare was?

I agree with Walter Kaufmann in that knowing the specific plumage of the parrots in Shakespeare's time or the exact clothing the characters wear has nothing to do with a literary understanding of Shakespeare's works and ontological truth he's trying to convey. What's needed is a phenomenological analysis of characters .

As an aside:
All you religious conspiracy theorists need to realize that on the end you're just going to be hung by a group of people that believe in your truth or "plan" (even though you may not fully believe it yourself) on a pendulum, either that your you'll end up on some isolated farm reflecting your future demise.

Literary reference rep for anyone who knows what book that's from?