Can you learn fencing from Hollywood?

[mrmgp]

One thing I've learned after beginning fencing lessons is that much of what I see in film and TV sword fights is pure B.S. Now I know that Basil Rathbone is considered by many to have been the best swordsman to ever grace the silver screen, but what other actors might be good to watch in action with a sword to pick up good fencing techniques from? Or is it even possible to learn anything about sport fencing from watching film or TV?

[CvilleFencer]

By definition, fencing for the theater or stage needs to both look good and be obvious to an uneducated audience. As such there is little in the way of actual effective technique that can be picked up. Watching high level fencing video can be useful once you are at a point where you can actually understanding what they are doing. However I have a fair number of newer fencers who try to replicate actions they see X fencer do and they don't understand the setup, execution, subtle variations involved. Also most importantly they don't understand the concept of its not just what one fencer does, its what they both do.

So, TV/film is no. DVD's of actual bouts are useful, once you understand what you are seeing.

[Purple Fencer]

Cville beat me to it....stage combat and Olympic style fencing...even if the scene being shot is an Olympic-style scene - are NOT and never will be the same.

Stage combat is about making it look goo...telling he story with the blades, as SwordPlay's Tim Weske puts it.

The on'y way you're going to learn actual fencing from Hollywood is to take classes at a salle in the area

[parrythis]

By definition, fencing for the theater or stage needs to both look good and be obvious to an uneducated audience.

Not only that, but it has to be safe for the participants (i.e. the actors/actresses). That means that they will not be doing things that a person equipped with the proper safety equipment would consider to be the norm.

[sabreteur]

They lie. All you ever need to know can be learned by watching The Princess Bride enough times.

[tkexi991]

You guys might shoot me for saying this, but Adrian Paul in his training scenes in Highlander: The Series looks pretty good. There was one episode where he tried to teach a new immortal the various common parries.

[jfarmer]

One of the first things my son & I do when we teach stage sword combat & fencing is do a few demos. place the students "front row" distance in the theatre and then run through a fencing demo, first with real actions, then with stage actions. Then we bring them closer to a camera POV and repeat the two demos. Depending on what they need to learn, we repeat with other weapons (other sport weapons, rapiers, side swords, broadswords, katanas etc.).

The point we're trying to get across is how different the size and type of actions used. A stage combat scene, in theatre or film must fit within & advance the story, be understandable by the audience, and above all safe for the actors.

Watching fencing & sword scenes in movies is fun, but I wouldn't try to learn any fencing from them, any more than I would try to survive a gun fight by doing "Matrix" style moves...

John Farmer
Coach, Oak Ridge Fencers Club

[jfarmer]

You guys might shoot me for saying this, but Adrian Paul in his training scenes in Highlander: The Series looks pretty good. There was one episode where he tried to teach a new immortal the various common parries.

Go read the credits for the TV show. You might find out why they look good and correct... (Hint: Most episodes were done by fight directors with a ton of sport fencing, sword fighting, and stage fighting experience...)

And yes, I read the credits of all the movies & TV shows I watch...

John Farmer
Coach, Oak Ridge Fencers Club

[epeeinacup666]

I remember seeing some epee fencing in the movie "Pentathlon" with Dolph Lungren...And if I remember correctly,in this movie,Dolph beats Rob Stull in a one-touch bout (yeah,THAT Rob Stull!!)...I can't say that would help anyone fence better or not,but it was very disheartening for me to watch...Well,it was epee,so it was just luck,right? *rolling eyes*

[noodle]

Q: can you learn (insert any skill here) from hollywood?
A: no.

[TooLoftheDeviL]

Q: can you learn (insert any skill here) from hollywood?
A: no.

Everyone knows The Highlander was a documentary, and the events were filmed in real time.

[Gav]

One thing I've learned after beginning fencing lessons is that much of what I see in film and TV sword fights is pure B.S. Now I know that Basil Rathbone is considered by many to have been the best swordsman to ever grace the silver screen, but what other actors might be good to watch in action with a sword to pick up good fencing techniques from? Or is it even possible to learn anything about sport fencing from watching film or TV?

What?

[KD5MDK]

I remember seeing some epee fencing in the movie "Pentathlon" with Dolph Lungren...And if I remember correctly,in this movie,Dolph beats Rob Stull in a one-touch bout (yeah,THAT Rob Stull!!)...I can't say that would help anyone fence better or not,but it was very disheartening for me to watch...Well,it was epee,so it was just luck,right? *rolling eyes*

Disheartening that Dolph Lungren finds easy what some many others find so hard?

[crquack]

You guys might shoot me for saying this, but Adrian Paul in his training scenes in Highlander: The Series looks pretty good. There was one episode where he tried to teach a new immortal the various common parries

Adrian Paul is very good with the sword and even better if he has a decent opponent, such as Anthony DeLongis. How is this relevant to learning sport fencing? Not at all...

On the other hand one might learn more about fencing by watching AP than speaking with a Scottish accent by listening to him

[crquack]

As an afterthought: Anthony DeLongis has a nice DVD called "Fighting with sabre and cutlass". It was published by Cold Steel with Lynn Thompson.

ADL is an excellent teacher and I enjoyed the DVD (at least the part with him doing the teaching) even though its relevance to modern sports' sabre is tenuous.

[Purple Fencer]

Anthony also has actually competed in sabre in SoCal competition (although the last time i saw him was several years ago)

[bxtr]

I learned a new move from "The Hollow", a cheesy horror film I rented on Halloween. In a high school fencing class, Fencer A fleches at Fencer B (our hero). Fencer B drops down onto his back, plants his feet in Fencer A's stomach and sends him somersaulting over him. The coach says the move is illegal, but he admires Fencer B's instincts.

Alas, it probably does fall under corps-a-corps.

[p1nkp4nther]

I agree that you cannot learn much about the SPORT of fencing from THEATRICAL fencing (except maybe how not to do things) and usually I just cannot watch swordplay in a movie - it is too horrendous!

But, there was one movie I did enjoy watching. Troy with Brad Pitt. I think the choreographers really went to some trouble to make it look/feel real. While attacs made in movies are usually completely useless (aiming at the air around the target, slow large attacks...) and parries rediculous (the attacker moves his blade towards the parry instead of disengaging 8O !) - it did not appear that way in Troy. I thought it was even better than the epee fencing in the 007 movie.

That said it was still just THEATRE - but much more entertaining for me than the usual nonsense in movies. And off course one cannot compare the style of fencing with piercing weapons (epee and foil) with that of broadswords or the like.

[KD5MDK]

I learned a new move from "The Hollow", a cheesy horror film I rented on Halloween. In a high school fencing class, Fencer A fleches at Fencer B (our hero). Fencer B drops down onto his back, plants his feet in Fencer A's stomach and sends him somersaulting over him. The coach says the move is illegal, but he admires Fencer B's instincts.

Alas, it probably does fall under corps-a-corps.

No. That falls under Deliberate Brutality*. Kicking is not on the allowed list of things a fencer may do on strip.





*Group 4

[Allen Evans]

Can you learn fencing from Hollywood?

(laughing) Yes. For example, I regularly practice surgical techniques I learned from watching "ER".