Do you fence with a referee in the club? Mostly a question for foil/sabreists

[dramamine]

Pretty straightforward. When you are fencing practice bouts in the club do you get someone to referee or do you just fence and ref yourselves? Do you feel like there's a particular reason one should do one or the other?

[Chafunkta]

Yea, we do. It gets the fencers practice with refereeing, and also makes sure that the bouts are moving so everyone gets a turn to fence. We generally fence to 5 in foil and 15 in sabre and epee. Having a referee ensures that both fencers don't always just shrug their shoulders and throw out a touch.

If the referee is competent, it's also a good chance to explain right-of-way to beginners on a case-by-case basis.

[edew]

And if the referee is not so competent, it's a good opportunity to explain to them why such an action give RoW to one of the fencers or the other. Also, keeps the fencers understanding that what they think is their action might not be interpreted as such by the referee.

[KD5MDK]

Having a referee ensures that both fencers don't always just shrug their shoulders and throw out a touch.

Having a referee in club prevents that?

[Goldgar]

Only occasionally. Most bouts are unrefereed. Often, though, if there are just a few people "fencing around", they'll take turns refereeing.

[edew]

We do the standard two-up-and-down rule with the referee coming up for the next bout. That way, you know when you're up next and you have to practice refereeing to get your bouts in.

[Shi no Tenshi]

We have a director when we can, but sometimes there just aren't enough willing bodies there. It's always good to have that second opinion, because sometimes your actions are just too close to call.

[Peach]

It depends on how many strips are being used. Our strips are so close together that even when the club is relatively quiet you have to wear a mask to referee, and if there are bouts on every strip it's just not possible. We sabre fencers try to do it when it's pretty empty.

[CvilleFencer]

Mostly we use a ref for foil and saber during club bouts where we are keeping score. I strongly encourage (read, drag off the benches kicking and screaming) my fencers to referee in the club. I think it helps for them to observe other fencers, especially higher level fencers, and it encouraged them to both understand what a referee looks for and furthers their understanding of the rules. For epee, usually no referee however.

[HDG]

We try to have all epee bouts reffed too, to discourage the belief that reffing epee is a no-brainer.

Get people used to watching for floor vs. foot; get them used to watching for whether the touch was made before or after going off the side; get them used to watching for whether the riposte, etc. was immediate when the other person goes off the side.

These things are important in all weapons (well, not the 1st one), but there is too much careless epee reffing since it's too often treated as mindless.

[Redblade]

Yes, even in epee, it can be very useful to have a third person involved. It's especially helpful to avoid one-on-one stubborn arguments about back-turning, missed toe touches, ripostes after fleches, etc.

[Heavenguard]

My friends and I make attempts at reffing each other. We're not really very good at it, though >_>

[rudd]

Always. Ref one bout then fence two.

[Joe biebel]

At the Caliburn club in Milwaukee, we almost all referee. It's a part of the "system" to get on the strip and fence electric. I am often impressed with the newest kids to try it. Often their "gut instinct" for picking out attacks is quite good. They probably have yet to have anyone "blow-up" on them for perceived mistakes.

One of the difficult parts for someone as competetive as myself, is to wait patiently, not giving any clue as to what I think the action is.

My own personal policy with newbie referees at club is to only correct them if they have given me ROW that I did not deserve. "Correcting" someone in your favor is pretty hard to sell, and may not be received well by the ref and the opposing fencer.

I also like to encourage the giving of cards for infractions. A ref must not be afraid to enforce the rules and, at club, is a real good place to start. It's also critical for fencers that they "bulletproof" themselves from cards and can stay out of trouble with the referees.

Finally, I think there is no better place to learn to be a referee. There really is nothing at stake and it's a wonderful opportunity to learn. Recently, I was at 2 small open tournamements that were self-directed. Unfortunately, the same 3 or 4 people did all of the refereeing. These were the people that already knew how to do this. Despite several pleas, by myself, extolling what a wonderful opportunity this was with no real consequence for failure, no one was forthcoming. Really, "not trying", is the only sure way to fail.

[randomsabreur]

If the referee will not be at risk of being hit and the ratio of febcers to pistes. I am not at club to referee, I'm there to fence and people keep asking me more than my "share".

I'm good at being "honest" in club (and in competition) unless fencing left-handed when I have no idea if I broke time, or started in time (left handed due to injury atm and I feel so un-coordinated)

[parrythis]

It depends on how many strips are being used. Our strips are so close together that even when the club is relatively quiet you have to wear a mask to referee, and if there are bouts on every strip it's just not possible. We sabre fencers try to do it when it's pretty empty.

Us too. Our strips are right on top of one another. Unless we are doing an adjudicated bout for our competition ladder, practice bouting is usually self-refereed.

[FeatherBlade]

While fencing practice bouts, we are always happy to have a referee when possible. For me, one good side about this is, that I don't have to keep track of touches
If I have to referee, I see it as a good opportunity to practice making calls.

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

No one stands around and waits unless all the strips are being reffed at our club. You have to learn to reff if you're going to fence. And I give yellow and red cards in the club, too. It's good for the less experienced fencers to experience the circumstances in which cards will be issued in a bona-fide competition.

[Inquartata]

Do people actually go to fencing clubs just to referee? Otherwise I don't see the distinction between fencers or coaches doing the duty and fencers taking turns...

We almost always just do it ourselves. ( Sometimes we don't even have idle fencers for it. )

[Joe biebel]

Do people actually go to fencing clubs just to referee? Otherwise I don't see the distinction between fencers or coaches doing the duty and fencers taking turns...

We almost always just do it ourselves. ( Sometimes we don't even have idle fencers for it. )

Recently, I was going to "club", just to referee. This is kind of counter to my philosophy of everybody sharing the refereeing. I was consciously trying to improve my refereeing and trying to get better at hand signals etc. While I recovered from surgeries. I think everyone was happy to let me. I have since mostly recovered from my physical problems, train regularly, and am back to fencing twice, reffing once, at club again.

I would not doubt that folks serious about their refereeing "craft" would go, just to work on specifics and to keep a sharp eye. I can tell that all of the referees I get at NACs, Nationals, etc., train for it, diligently, on a daily basis.