FIE Arbitrage Sabre DVD - a must see for ALL fencers and referees

[downunder]

http://www.ulufencing.net/FIE_ARBITRAGE_SABRE_1.1.mpg

We were shown this DVD at my exams in Prague 2 weeks ago and Arthur Kramer asked us to show it to everyone we could.

This shows with descriptions and live video some interpretations for the attack in sabre and also point in line after an attack.

My copy of the DVD is corrupted in certain sections, but I have managed to get the main part uploaded and ready to go.


The file is 400 megabytes and the video 40 minutes long. Please Right click and "Save Target as..." to help with bandwidth.

Many thanks to Tim from the University of London fencing club for allowing me to use his hosting.

If anyone could mirror it or upload it to a public video site that would be wonderful.

[Craig]

I'll have to chop it up for the max video size allowed, but I'll get this up on several sites right away.

Craig

[Allen Evans]

Very interesting video.

AE

[sleepyweasle]

Thanks DU - this is very valuable.

[argonis]

Thank you for posting this, very interestin stuff.

Can someone clarify the part about sabre not having prise de fers. Fencer A is retreating, beats the tip of his opponent's blade and hits, 2 lights. Was he saying that there's another term for it besides prise de fer, or was he saying that it's never A's touch unless there's only 1 light?

[oiuyt]

He defines prise de fer as an action that maintains blade contact, hitting in opposition. He thinks that what most people call prise de fer shouldn't be termed that.

-B

[Allen Evans]

I've head a number of referees lump "attacks du fer" and "prise de fer" under one category (prise). Presumably the Maitres were simply quibbling over terminology, but I wasn't clear on that part either. I hope to run through that part of the video again.

AE

[erooMynohtnA]

Thank you for posting this, very interestin stuff.

Can someone clarify the part about sabre not having prise de fers. Fencer A is retreating, beats the tip of his opponent's blade and hits, 2 lights. Was he saying that there's another term for it besides prise de fer, or was he saying that it's never A's touch unless there's only 1 light?

Prise (-de-fer): One of the two “families” of attacks on the blade. Includes the bind, cross, development, and opposition. The opponent’s blade is controlled all the way to the target. Cf. “tac-au-fer”.

Attaque-au-fer: One of the two families of attacks on the blade (which see). Includes the beat, expulsion, and pressure. The blade is not held all the way to the target, nor is it moved and held. Sometimes called “Tac-au-fer”.

Characters

[KD5MDK]

I suspect it will be less helpful to epee fencers and referees, but I suppose I'll have to watch it first.

Damn work, interfering with my fun.

[Goldgar]

http://www.ulufencing.net/FIE_ARBITRAGE_SABRE_1.1.mpg

We were shown this DVD at my exams in Prague 2 weeks ago and Arthur Kramer asked us to show it to everyone we could.

This shows with descriptions and live video the current interpretations for the attack in sabre and also point in line after an attack.

That is a purely beautiful thing! Thank you very much for posting it. Do you know if there is one, or in the works, for foil?

The bulk of the discussion agrees with what I've always held, but the clarification on low "attacks" in sabre is a relatively new thing.

[erooMynohtnA]

I've watched a little of this. It is awesome and it would be awesome to have one for foil too.

The maestro 21 minutes into it, he has a pretty sweet saber. The guard is clear! Where'd he get that?

[bigdawg2121]

Entertaining video . I'm not convinced that the coaches and Kramer are saying the same things though...I can imagine lots of angry coaches wondering why the hell referees are calling things the way this video with their endorsement says to.

[oso97]

Entertaining video . I'm not convinced that the coaches and Kramer are saying the same things though...I can imagine lots of angry coaches wondering why the hell referees are calling things the way this video with their endorsement says to.

Yes, I see that definitely.

This has the potential to both clear things up and muddle the waters. But its a good piece of work. If it becomes "gospel" then it does make things easier.

[Goldgar]

I'm not convinced that the coaches and Kramer are saying the same things though.

I didn't notice that; they seemed pretty consistent to me. Could you give an example?

[epeelion]

Just a random question...are any of the Italian coaches/administrators actually Italian? They have such strong accents...or at least it seems that way.

[jeff]

My thanks also for posting this. 400MB of download well worth it. Yay, broadband!

That is a purely beautiful thing! Thank you very much for posting it. Do you know if there is one, or in the works, for foil?

The bulk of the discussion agrees with what I've always held, but the clarification on low "attacks" in sabre is a relatively new thing.

Same here. What's striking to me is the insistence in which it's said the bent/withdrawn arm is said to not be an attack. Look at the section around 4 minutes into the clip. The wording is something like "it cannot be threat just at the beginning", "if I do this" (points at floor, withdraws arm to tierce), "then it is no longer an attack; it is a preparation". He illustrates this several times and several ways, including with a point attack: when his point is not directed at the valid target, it is not an attack.

That's exactly what I've always held, and what I've been told over and over "isn't the current interpretation of ROW", "isn't what the Europeans do". Here and at competitions I see lots of "attacks: called with the arm withdrawn partway through the action, or never directed towards target till the very last moment. I hope the sense of the attack related in the video gets restored to the field soon.

[sheck]

Entertaining video . I'm not convinced that the coaches and Kramer are saying the same things though...I can imagine lots of angry coaches wondering why the hell referees are calling things the way this video with their endorsement says to.

You mean the ones in the video? If not why would he want it distributed?

[pokey]

That bouncing thumbs up/thumbs down smiley is hilarious.

It's strange seeing that on the video and not hearing Japanese.

[Goldgar]

That bouncing thumbs up/thumbs down smiley is hilarious.

It's strange seeing that on the video and not hearing Japanese.

LOL -- Yes, that's obnoxious.

[AndrewH]

Some of the things in the video make sense, but I'm confused by the calls that appear to indicate an immediate continuation of the attack still takes ROW.