11-06-2007, 11:46 AM
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#21 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 852
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Originally Posted by fencerbill  Someone did it for us, so we have an obligation to do it for someone. | That's my primary reason for refereeing. Quote:
Originally Posted by fencerbill We see it done not as well as we think we can do it. | That point simultaneously provides confidence ("I can referee than that guy!") and motivation to improve ("Yikes! Today I'm refereeing worse than that guy!"). | 
|  | | And now for this message... |
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11-06-2007, 01:32 PM
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#22 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004 Location: la la land
Posts: 147
| Quote:
Originally Posted by downunder Because I'm good at it, I enjoy it, and will go further as a referee than as a fencer. | Yep.
I love. This. Job. There is no place I would rather be as a ref than in front of a great bout at 14-14.
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"That was so close to being good!"
"Name a shrub after me -- something prickly and hard to eradicate" | |
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11-06-2007, 02:08 PM
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#23 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005 Location: The Driftwood Bar, Louisiana
Posts: 484
| Read some Referee magazine, or perhaps check out the NASO (National Association of Sports Officials) website for an exorbitant amount of information/discussions on this.
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Just push the button!
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11-06-2007, 02:51 PM
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#24 | | Friend of Fencing
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Being helpful in Breeland
Posts: 854
| For service, honor, love,
... and money. 
There's something to be said about being part of a process in which everything you do, and every split-second decision you make plays a part in contributing toward something great.
The community of fencing exists for many different motivations: pursuit of results, avenue for stress relief, way to exercise, place to learn discipline, etc. Regardless of individual purpose of the fencers before you, as a referee on duty, you have a chance to serve them and the community. With every good call and every bad call, you have an instantaneous (oftentimes before any feedback) knowledge of whether you're doing better or worse in an activity you're engaged in.
For every group of fencers who are blessed with correct knowledge, there are ten or more pockets of communities that are cursed with misunderstanding or very much outdated knowledge. Being a referee (especially an active one) gives you a cutting-edge exposure to latest information. Also, if you're from less fortunate areas, refereeing higher and higher level of fencers provides for fendamental education you may otherwise never had access to.
As you get better and better at this peculiar activity, you find yourself honored of being entrusted with events and bouts of greater importance. And off-duty, you have an opportunity to interact with a different sort of sub-community, made of those who have achieved greatness in activities of their choosing.
Refereeing on a regular basis can also prove to be quite therapeutic. It's an activity where you are required to maintain a high level of focus, perception and finding the mental/emotional "center" for a lengthy duration of time. You're constantly exposed to, or in threat of, physical and mental stress while you attempt to maintain a stable level of performance.
You meet all sorts of people as a part of the fencing community (good, bad, honest, dishonest, calm, volatile, sane, insane, etc). As a referee, you have a unique insight into what makes everyone tick. You see beyond the layer of smiles and handshakes for a chance to peer into what people are made of. That, you can't buy with money.
If you're fortunate enough to be in northeastern US, you also have access to a good chunk of money if you remain active enough, strive to achieve and maintain a high level of performance, market yourself, and..... show up.
__________________
"Presidente of the Jury must consider the artistry and finesse of a foilist's attaque. He must also make it a pointe to deteste the hideousness of unwashed heathen who insists upon marching forwarde with his arm bent in a grotesque manner."
- Maitre Somme R'andome Douchebach | |
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11-06-2007, 03:05 PM
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#25 | | Scrub
Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Miami
Posts: 2,231
| Quote:
Originally Posted by formerfencer There is no place I would rather be as a ref than in front of a great bout at 14-14. | I'd rather be in that bout. | |
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11-06-2007, 03:18 PM
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#26 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004 Location: la la land
Posts: 147
| Quote:
Originally Posted by HDG I'd rather be in that bout. | And that's why I'm a better ref than a fencer: as a fencer, that place scares me. As a ref, it doesn't. I respond much better to pressure as a ref... something I am still trying to translate to my own fencing.
__________________
"That was so close to being good!"
"Name a shrub after me -- something prickly and hard to eradicate" | |
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11-06-2007, 03:50 PM
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#27 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,946
| What fencerbill said, especially "Someone did it for us, so we have an obligation to do it for someone." I have to rep more people so I can rep him again.
That said, if the fencing is good, and the coaches/parents/fencers aren't being obnoxious, it can be tremendous fun. You have the best seat in the house, and the best view. Instead of having somebody blocking your view, waving their hands and making calls you disagree with, you can be the person waving your hands and making calls other people disagree with...
I have to admit that right now I only referee under duress. I don't get enough time to fence, and I'd rather spend the few hours I can put aside for fencing to actually fence. That, along with philosophical disagreements about contemporary views of ROW (I conform, but I have to grit my teeth) and the arbitrary wierdness that Downunder recently illustrated (the thread with the lack of inspection markers on replacement weapons), and especially the ultra-competitve complainers at the side of the strip take the fun out of it. I can ignore or card the hecklers as needed, but it really takes the fun out of the activity.
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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11-06-2007, 04:29 PM
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#28 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,303
| Fencing as a profession or activity has a lot of roles that can be played: fencer, coach, referee, armorer, administrator...if fencing is a big part of your life the more perspectives you have on that life, the fuller that experience is going to be.
AE | |
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11-06-2007, 05:02 PM
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#29 | | gother than thou
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 747
| I think the root of my role as a referee stems from hearing different camps of fencers chime in on different topics in local competition. It was confusing to me to have the same actions called different ways, how sometimes this "flick" thing was an attack, and sometimes it was always a preparation - while the PIL business nobody seemed to present consistently.
It is my belief that good refereeing, consistent with current interpretation and adequate rules enforcement, will help to improve the fencing being done. If rules are not enforced concerning things like covering target, local fencers will continue to do things like cover target. If you change your perspective of the window of time allowed for a riposte because of the level of the fencers involved, you are allowing the fencers to compete in a tempo that they will not find successful against higher level fencers.
I referee in hopes that we can move away from the acceptance of mediocre officiating.
__________________
Space dementia in your eyes and
Peace will arise and tear us apart
And make us meaningless again
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11-06-2007, 06:27 PM
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#30 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: near Boston
Posts: 2,744
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper The thrill of black carding someone is better than sex. | I think your comment says more about your sex than about your black carding.
__________________
When Clinton entered office, oil was $20 a barrel. When George W. entered office, oil was $20 a barrel. Thanks George.
On Jan 22, 2001 it cost 94 cents to buy a Euro, now it costs about $1.50. Thanks again, George.
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11-06-2007, 08:55 PM
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#31 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,374
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Originally Posted by Allen Evans Fencing as a profession or activity has a lot of roles that can be played: fencer, coach, referee, armorer, administrator...if fencing is a big part of your life the more perspectives you have on that life, the fuller that experience is going to be. | No wonder my life feels so full(filling).
-B
__________________ http://www.usfanominees.com The USFA-nominated officer candidates for the 2008-2012 term
"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
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11-06-2007, 09:55 PM
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#32 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,303
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Originally Posted by oiuyt No wonder my life feels so full(filling). | You've no one to blame but yourself.
AE | |
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11-07-2007, 02:05 AM
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#33 | | Have Blazer, Will Travel
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 9,295
| You left off forum poster. I suspect that has a bit to do with it.  | |
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11-07-2007, 03:26 AM
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#34 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norcal
Posts: 416
| <shrugs>
I find it helps my fencing; and it does so in several areas. I see actions better now when I'm actually fencing, than I did before. I can start to stand in the shoes of the ref. whose call I disagree with. Learning to ask questions about calls, instead of arguing calls is helping me to learn about what I'm actually doing rather than what I think I am doing.
Oh and the whole <at the higher levels> being flown to various assundry countries. (and yeah, I know you're spending almost all that time flying, getting over jet lag, or at the venue...but it's just darn cool).
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Do not meddle with dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
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11-07-2007, 06:26 PM
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#35 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 688
| It is a way for me to keep active in a sport where I never was better than average. I am a far better ref than I am a fencer, my last NAC result was mid 50s at the D3 level, by contrast I regularly ref L32-L12 in D1 events. I have a lot of fun at tournaments, seeing friends, racking up frequent flyer miles, bonus they pay me.
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Go to the well until the well is dry. When the well is dry find a new well.
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11-09-2007, 02:50 PM
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#36 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 22,244
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Originally Posted by Mauler For service, honor, love,
... and money. | "And then,
Perhaps for a change you'll murder the wives,
And---" but on second thought I leave the rest aposiopetic. 
__________________
Use the Shift key, people! Keyboard manufacturers everywhere are ineffably saddened when you ignore what they made just for you!
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11-09-2007, 03:05 PM
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#37 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 363
| I think I would have made a good ref - Ref'ing sharpens your eye, which sharpens your bouts, if you get good at it, people become terrified of you, and eventually you'll go to the olympics!!!
[how horrible of me, but that's the fencing fantasy!!]  | |
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11-09-2007, 07:24 PM
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#38 | | Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 51
| "To give back."
That's what I keep telling myself.
It definitely is not for the money. | |
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11-09-2007, 07:57 PM
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#39 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Houston/Galveston, Texas, USA
Posts: 457
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Originally Posted by catwood1 Why do we referee? | I constantly ask myself this question...  | |
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11-09-2007, 09:21 PM
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#40 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC, the WET coast of Canada
Posts: 1,970
| Why we ref
Without being an egomaniac, "Where there is a competition, a referee's role is of utmost importance."
[I think this was part of the opening statement of the Canada Winter Games in Whitehorse, Yukon Territory.]
Sort of like the script writers ...
That said, "They say that the men and women in black are having a good game if you don't notice them." http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...nt/4188156.stm
OTOH, I'm waiting to blackcard a fencer who, after complaining about a call, kisses me... http://brazil.theoffside.com/folklor...ow-carded.html
I saw it on BBC World.
Here's the video from Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/news/video/vi...?videoId=49667
From this video's angle the peck wasn't shown too well as that on BBC.
PK
Last edited by pkt; 11-09-2007 at 09:23 PM.
Reason: correction
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