HD Camcorder revisited...HELP?

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

OK...I thought buying a HD camcorder would be easier than it is. I'm already giving up on some of my desires...like having a decent quality still photo in addition to the HD video.

The cost of the camera is not much of a concern. But here are my concerns from the research I've done so far:

1) If I buy the MiniDV tape kind, then I'll have to buy dozens and dozens of tapes to bring on my trip. It seems as though the tapes, at about $8-$10 each, will hold 15-20 minutes of HD recording. And....UGH! Tape? That's so...last MILLENIUM!
2) If I buy the Mini DVD style, then playback is only thru the camera, or else (If I buy Sony) I have to have a Blu-Ray player at $600 for a cheapie. If I want to record onto SD DVD for playback w/out a BR player, then I have to do some kind of conversion that no one I've spoken to can explain to me.
3) If I buy a non-Sony Mini-DVD style, then I can at least use (I believe) a HD-DVD player, which is on sale for $200...not bad. But I cannot find a non-Sony Mini DVD camera.
4) If I buy the hard drive kind, if I fill it up, then I'm out of luck unless I buy a laptop to bring on the trip. And if it's a SONY, then I cannot play it back AT ALL until I get a Blue Ray BURNER once I have downloaded it from the camera. I could also buy DVD direct or a portable 320gig hard drive for short money, but then I need either the BR player or BR Burner/Player, too.
5) If I buy the Flash Memory kind, then I have to get several VERY EXPENSIVE memory sticks (about $70 per 4 gigs on sale).

What am I missing here? I'm willing to give up easy editing. I'm willing to give up good still photos. I'm sure I will some day buy a blu-ray player as well as a burner. But it's not going to be now. It's way too expensive for what it is...especially considering the MUCH lower cost of HD DVD. Am I missing any manufacturers / models that I should be looking at?

Capt Slo-Mo! Help!

[App13]

Go mini-dvd, conversion is incredibly easy.

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

Originally Posted by App13

Go mini-dvd, conversion is incredibly easy.

Thanks, Chief! I may have you explain it to me!

Also, thanks for running the tournament!

BFO

[App13]

Originally Posted by Beloit Fencer of Old

Thanks, Chief! I may have you explain it to me!

Also, thanks for running the tournament!

BFO

Pop the DVD into your computers DVD rom drive. Download the cameras conversion software (usually comes with it, if not give me the name/model type and I could probably find it).

I used to be HUGE into film making and researched that kinda stuff all the time.

Oh and no problem about the tourney, I got a BLT that took probably 27 hours off my life for working that day. Good stuff.

[EDIT]

Unfortunately you aren't going to find one for less then 800...

This is one of the best out there:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16830120195

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Beloit! Deep, calming breaths....

I can't in good faith recommend you go the route of the high definition AVCHD cameras. There are legions of non-professional video enthusiasts who have found them very hard to edit or do anything with. Most of the standard def Mini-dvd cameras have terrible video quality.

Canon Everio camcorders can record on mini-DVD, but the picture quality is pretty universally panned.

I hate to say it, but at least for the next couple of years, it's hard to beat a tape based system. Immediate archiving, easily played back (hook up a component cable/HDMI from the camera to the HDTV, and whammo! Instant High Definition programming). If you do have a non-linear editing system on your PC (anything from I-movie to Windows Moviemaker) () to one of the better systems like Vegas or Final Cut Pro or AVID, ingesting tape is very easy, and can then be laid off to Standard Def DVDs. The HD-DVD and Blu-Ray DVD burners are still not quite there yet.

And yes, trying to navigate the mini-DVD to Blu-ray playback is still pretty awful, and, if done incorrectly, can corrupt your recorded media right on the original DVD. If you record on HDV tape, it's still archived in High Definition (ok, 1440 x 1080i) for a couple of years down the road when HD DVD burning systems are more robust.

Now, dozens of tapes? All the HDV cameras record on mini-dv sized tapes, and record for an hour a tape.

So, which is more important: better video quality and lesser still pix, or lesser video quality and higher still pix? Here're a few choices:
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...uctId=11034787
This is the highest quality HD tape camera I can find that also takes still pictures. It has 3 sensors for a much better tape picture, but slightly less resolution on the still pix. It's also bigger than a standard palm sized recorder.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...uctId=11039061
This is a smaller, single sensor tape camera, with higher quality stills.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._CMOS_HDV.html
This might be my choice for you out of the Canon line...the HV20. Also takes 3 megapixel stills, and I've seen some awesome video clips from this camera. Probably more of a point and shoot than a prosumer camera, but if you want something in that category, fatten up your checkbook and I'll help you spend some money!

If you still need more information, PM me for a phone number, and we can chat!

[JEC]

I have had a JVC HD-10 for 4 years. I have used other HDV systems. The Capt. is a pro in this business, while I am just a pro-sumer recording HD fencing for 4 years. I agree with pretty much everything he said above. I primarily use Vegas while the Capt. likes Avid better, but Pinnacle Studio is simple enough for a HDV camera.

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

Thank you all for your help and information! I do very sincerely appreciate it. I love fnet and the fnetters...what a great community!

Regarding software, I own Magix (sucks..bought a while ago as my first foray) and Vegas, which I haven't used much. I have been told that Pinnacle is the way to go for ease-of-use with HD. For the time being, however, I will probably be happy with playing back via the camcorder directly to one of my HD sets. And I will keep my recording to HD standard-size DVD media for a future endeavor.

By the way...Best Buy has a Toshiba HD DVD player on sale for $199. I wonder of Sony will answer that and drop one of their Blu-ray players...to $499????

BFO