Santelli Snap Bibs

[griffindm]

We have several local schools that use these masks for teaching. They are used an average of 4 weeks per year with foil only, with children in the middle school age group. They will never see USFA competition, and the schools like the ability to wash the bibs, lessoning the concerns about sharing germs.

I am looking for a source of replacement bibs. It may be that I will have to either make them myself, or at a minimum, place the snaps on a stock bib in the appropriate places.

Any thoughts or suggestions? I doubt the schools are interested in moving to sewn-in bibs in mass, though some are buying replacement masks this way.

[Alex_Paul]

No chance I am afraid.

They are banned in USFA competition because they are potentially dangerous.

The danger of a sword in the neck is considerably worse than "sharing germs"!

I also doubt the school are interested in getting sued for supplying kids with kit that the USFA has deemed unsafe!

[Purple Fencer]

And if you point that out to the schools, they'll probably just drop the program entirely.

Solution...sew the bibs in yourself and periodically put them in teh dishwasher (by themselves with a SMALL amount of detergent) and clean them that way....safer all around.

[Alex_Paul]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

And if you point that out to the schools, they'll probably just drop the program entirely.

As they should...

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by Alex_Paul

As they should...

No...they should just invest in a mask with a sewn in bib, not drop the program.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by Alex_Paul

As they should...

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

No...they should just invest in a mask with a sewn in bib, not drop the program.

Yes, honestly, why advocate dropping the fencing program?

[CvilleFencer]

I think what Alex meant was "drop the program/habit of using unsafe, unsanctioned, potentially dangerous equipment". I doubt you will find LP lobbing for less fencing, be it UK or abroad!

[Hauptman]

Originally Posted by Alex_Paul

No chance I am afraid.

They are banned in USFA competition because they are potentially dangerous.

The danger of a sword in the neck is considerably worse than "sharing germs"!

I also doubt the school are interested in getting sued for supplying kids with kit that the USFA has deemed unsafe!

Those masks were in common use for many decades, and while there are safer designs now are there any documented cases of injuries specifically from those snap-in bibs? Not likely. Let's be reasonable about the situation. Unless of course you're willing to donate replacements for an underfunded public school program?

[the ancient one]

Originally Posted by Hauptman

Those masks were in common use for many decades, and while there are safer designs now ...

This is a "standard of care" issue.

In a US courtroom you cannot easily defend yourself when a better alternative was available.

This happens all the time in medicine, some new drug/device/procedure comes along and the thing you did that was state of the art yesterday suddenly is characterized as negligent or incompetent.

[Alex_Paul]

I was not suggesting that the club should close, I was agreeing that the bibs should either be permanently fixed or the masks should be replaced.

If the USFA have banned the use of an item due to safety concerns then it is unwise to alow that item to be used by kids in schools! Discussing wether or not they are safe or wether there is any documented cases of people being injured is not really relevant as the USFA have done the work for us.

[fencerbill]

These bibs can be made acceptable by sewing them in. The standard recommendation is to use dental floss.

Another significant factor is that the mesh of the masks should be verified by testing with a mask punch.

Santelli masks were well made. But rust can develop over the years and make them unsuitable for use.

One potential danger from aged Santelli masks is more prominent with the inexpensive Sabre masks. By this I mean the joint between the elliptical dome of the front of the mesh and the back section of the mesh. This is a welded joint and the welds can start to separate with age.

Bottom line: Sew in the bibs and have the masks checked for safety by a competent person. You don't need a graduate of Armorer's College but you should have someone who knows how to use a mask punch properly.

[Mergs]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

You don't need a graduate of Armorer's College .......

But it helps!!

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by Mergs

But it helps!!

Perhaps it does. Wish you could guarantee I won't see any more Armorer's College graduates testing Lames and body cords at NACs using a 5K ohms scale.

[KD5MDK]

They just want to make sure everybody has a fair chance at passing.

[Chuck F.]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

Perhaps it does. Wish you could guarantee I won't see any more Armorer's College graduates testing Lames and body cords at NACs using a 5K ohms scale.

Oh, man. I didn't hear about that! To be fair, they were probably just really nervous, maybe working or volunteering at a big national tournament for the first time.

(Now I am getting worried about getting caught doing something stupid... and I'm a Level 2! Thanks!)

[Chuck F.]

Originally Posted by griffindm

...the schools like the ability to wash the bibs... Any thoughts or suggestions?

Do a fundraiser and buy masks with removable padding inside the bibs. Absolute can set you up pretty cheap.

Otherwise, seriously, you are just asking for a lawsuit.