letting go?

[alex a]

How long should one stay with a coach before deciding it is just not working? How do work out if a coach is actually good or not?

[noodle]

this is too subjective to answer based on the fact that you don't provide any details.

[Tripod]

Originally Posted by noodle

this is too subjective to answer based on the fact that you don't provide any details.

Every board seems to have one of these nosy gents.

Alex, Don't mind that guy...

The relationship between students and coaches is a relationship like many others in a fencers life. No relationship is great all the time, but some are worth dealing with because you know it's worth it in the big picture.

If you believe that a coach is damaging you emotionally or physically then you should get out immediately. If you are concerned about lack of development, as a fencer, then you should open a dialog with your coach to discuss the matter. Communication is the best medicine in any relationship.

[RebelFencer]

Originally Posted by Tripod

Every board seems to have one of these nosy gents.

Alex, Don't mind that guy...

The relationship between students and coaches is a relationship like many others in a fencers life. No relationship is great all the time, but some are worth dealing with because you know it's worth it in the big picture.

If you believe that a coach is damaging you emotionally or physically then you should get out immediately. If you are concerned about lack of development, as a fencer, then you should open a dialog with your coach to discuss the matter. Communication is the best medicine in any relationship.

What the hell? That was a completely valid question. You don't ask for advice without giving some details so that the advice can be based on something.

[Tripod]

Originally Posted by RebelFencer

What the hell? That was a completely valid question. You don't ask for advice without giving some details so that the advice can be based on something.

Imagine a world where a person asks a general question in hopes of gaining a general response.

What's the point of pumping for the juicy details.

[RebelFencer]

Originally Posted by Tripod

Imagine a world where a person asks a general question in hopes of gaining a general response.

What's the point of pumping for the juicy details.

Have you ever thought that maybe he was wondering what specific area the parent was disagreeing with the coach in? You can ask what the problem is without asking for all the gory details. You come across as a holier than thou jerk.

[Tripod]

Originally Posted by RebelFencer

Have you ever thought that maybe he was wondering what specific area the parent was disagreeing with the coach in? You can ask what the problem is without asking for all the gory details. You come across as a holier than thou jerk.

Speaking of holier than thou jerks, where do you get the idea that this is a parent question?

Since reading appears to posing some difficulties, I'll represent the original post with the following:

Question #1
How long should one stay with a coach before deciding it is just not working?

Question #2
How do work out if a coach is actually good or not?

A simple answer can be provided to either question with little effort and responses need not be personal in nature.

I provided a brief response to the original question as posted by the original poster. Let me know when you feel like contributing instead of making jerky comments. I tend to expect more from fellow fencers.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Tripod

A simple and therefore essentially useless answer can be provided to either question with little effort and responses need not be personal in nature.

There, I've fixed it for you.

Let me know when you feel like contributing instead of making jerky comments. I tend to expect more from fellow fencers.

Just joined, and already you want to make the rules of discussion?

"Tricky"...

[VorpalCat]

Originally Posted by Tripod

Speaking of holier than thou jerks

"Pot, line three please. Pot, Kettle calling on line three."

[Tripod]

I'd just like to point out that I'm STILL the only one who's offered any constructive input related to the orginal post. Apparently a guy can have a handful of posts and be helpful, but millions of posts don't make people helpful.

Lesson learned.

Looks like the thread starter has been run off by the nosy prying and others who failed to read the post, but could take the time to call my input useless.,

Feel free to flame me for trying to be helpful, but maybe your time would be better spent helping other people.

[Inquartata]

Thank you, O all-wise master Tripod-sama.

[aamct2]

If you think a particular coach isn't working out, try taking some lessons with different coaches. If during a lesson, the fencer clicks with the coach and everything feels perfect, maybe it's time to switch. You might also find that the original coach really was the right coach.

Being a good coach for a particular fencer doesn't mean your the world's best fencer. It means you have a good knowledge of fencing and (more importantly) you're able to communicate that to the pupil. I think there's a lot of good coaches out there, but no coach is good for everyone. Try other coaches out and find the right one for you.

Good Luck,

aamct2

[DangerMouse]

Originally Posted by Tripod

I'd just like to point out that I'm STILL the only one who's offered any constructive input related to the orginal post. Apparently a guy can have a handful of posts and be helpful, but millions of posts don't make people helpful.

I'm not sure I'd call advice from someone who's only been fencing for 3 years useful on just about any front.

On topic, if you know that the coach isn't working for you (or your child) and there is another option, go to the other club and take a few lessons. You can tell pretty quickly if the coach student communication works or not. I've taken lessons from dozens of coaches and only 2 of them haven't worked for me at all. On the other hand, only 2 have really been great for me.

[erooMynohtnA]

Originally Posted by Tripod

I'd just like to point out that I'm STILL the only one who's offered any constructive input related to the orginal post. Apparently a guy can have a handful of posts and be helpful, but millions of posts don't make people helpful.

Lesson learned.

Looks like the thread starter has been run off by the nosy prying and others who failed to read the post, but could take the time to call my input useless.,

Feel free to flame me for trying to be helpful, but maybe your time would be better spent helping other people.

They are not flaming, they are less-than-gently chiding you. Well, maybe there's a little flaming, too.

I think it's cool that you're trying to help, but Noodle is just obviously correct that there's not enough information for a meaningful answer.

Take, for instance an armorer given an epee and told "It doesn't work. What do I do?" He could take hours and run through the entire body of knowledge he has for all epee parts and how to deal with them, or he could ask for more information.

Generally speaking, when a new poster directly confronts a person with a large green bar, they're going to get jumped all over. This is especially funny to me, because I don't think you have taken the time to figure out who the moderators and administrators are. Apparently they're "that guy." Don't mind them.

Hopefully none of this has soured you on fencing.net, because I like helpful posts. However, pretty much everyone here loves arguing even more, and that's all they're doing. There's no malice. Given the OP's rather terse posture, I don't think any more comments were forthcoming.

As to the original question, do what you think is right. I hope my answer was broad enough.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by Tripod

I'd just like to point out that I'm STILL the only one who's offered any constructive input related to the orginal post.

You're still the only person on this thread who appears to have no idea how this forum works, or indeed the internet in general. Lurk moar, as they say.


As for the original question, you need to ask yourself what your coach isn't providing that you need. As noodle said, this is really the relevant issue and if you want a yes or no from us, you'll have to provide us with those criteria.

If it's simply a matter of personality, or a conflict of how he coaches versus how you think he should, I would generally say that you should try to stick with them unless it's serious.


EDIT: And by the way, large bold text is considered to be extremely obnoxious.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Tripod

Every board seems to have one of these nosy gents.

Alex, Don't mind that guy...

The relationship between students and coaches is a relationship like many others in a fencers life. No relationship is great all the time, but some are worth dealing with because you know it's worth it in the big picture.

If you believe that a coach is damaging you emotionally or physically then you should get out immediately. If you are concerned about lack of development, as a fencer, then you should open a dialog with your coach to discuss the matter. Communication is the best medicine in any relationship.

nice. poorly answer the question and get in a personal attack.

i like how you assume that we're talking about a damaging relationship. if this were the case, your answer is the obvious one, as noone should stay in any sort of damaging relationship, whether its coach-student or with a significant other or anything else. nice job on wrangling "not working" down to "my coach is destroying me mentally/physically".

so, in the 90% chance that something ELSE is wrong, this is what we need to know more about:

1) alex, are you fencing in an area where fencing is prevalent? do you have the option to pack up and move to another coach?
2) is the issue more related to you feeling like the coach is not training you well enough? or,what has caused you to lose confidence in your coach -- if you're willing to discuss it?
3) do you want to continue to fence despite your coaching issue?

if you don't want to answer these questions in public or anything, you can drop me a PM and i'll give you my advice where not everyone can see.

in general, however, if you don't feel comfortable with your coach due to personal issues, its always a good idea to look elsewhere. and if you feel like you're not doing as well as you should be, and this is because of your coach, you might want to discuss it with them and give it a little more time, because this might not be an issue of just your coach.

[VorpalCat]

The original question is not unlike a tech support person hearing, 'What should I do when I get an error message while I'm using my computer?' Yes, I could give a generic reply to this generic question. And yes, it is a generic question even though the user thinks it's perfectly clear, much like alex a probably didn't realize how very broad the original question is to those with a great depth of experience with coaching situations.

But which better serves the asker in the long run, tossing out a generic, blanket answer to a vague question? Or asking for more detail first so the answer (answers, in this case) provided are more likely to be applicable to the actual situation? Those who care about actually providing a useful answer are more likely to ask for more detail first instead of just tossing a 'one size fits most' answer out there.

So alex a, if you're still following the thread, ignore the snarkfest Tripe started. If you now have the answer you were looking for, great! But if you're still uneasy, a little more detail would help us give you better suggestions. Consider taking up noodle's offer of help via PM if you are reluctant to share more info publicly. (He's not Random Creepy Stalker Guy, if that helps any. )

[randomsabreur]

It depends why it's not working...

BUT, assuming you are a relatively experienced fencer

If you can't stand the sight of them and make mental excuses to try and get out of going fencing, or you think they are asking you to do things that are plain wrong, walk out there and then - don't waste your money persisting.

If you are having trouble reading their actions and openings, and they are now your only coach, give it a couple of months, especially if you were with your old coach a long time.

If you're not sure either way, depends on what else is around - but some people it can take a fair amount of time to click with, it can be worth persevering, or taking a break from a given coach.

For example, as a young fencer I didn't get on well with lessons from the national team coach. For that stage in my development, his personality while coaching didn't fit with what I needed for a competition warm up. I liked him personally at the time (and still do). Now 8 years later, I find a lesson from him very helpful, because I am more secure in my own self and style of fencing and he gives a different perspective to consider.

Another coach I never got on with. He coached at a club near my university, and his coaching actions just confused me - his signal that I should parry quinte was identical (and easier to hit) than my home town coach's signal for stop cut, parry riposte - he always told me off for getting the stopcut in first!



See, it is perfectly possible to give a meaningful response without any details, but you need to give more than one scenario. What if the OP thinks his coach may be on here, and doesn't want to compromise that relationship?

[Inquartata]

Is it either feasible or wise, though?

I mean, the OP hasn't even told us which weapon he fences. For all we know he's trying to learn modern sabre from a coach whose specialty is teaching "classical" foil...or he's getting free lessons from Nazlymov. In either example where does your answer get him, really? I mean, would the average fencer's sense of "things that are just plain wrong" be meaningful in the latter case?

To add to the analogies, who goes to a doctor and says "I hurt" and expects a diagnosis and a prescription without having the MD ask a bunch of questions about where it hurts, and how, and so forth? And who tells the doctor he's being nosy and should just shut up and write the 'scrip?

[tbryan]

Originally Posted by aamct2

If you think a particular coach isn't working out, try taking some lessons with different coaches.

Note that many coaches would like you to discuss this training plan with them before seeking another coach. In any case, you should definitely let the new coach know that you've been working with coach X. Allen has a very good post about it in his blog: Coaches are not plumbers.