I've heard mixed opinions about fencing international events for sake of fencing international fencers and gaining experience. It is expensive to go abroad just to have the experience but may be it is?
What is your take on this? Is it worth it? Can't he get that "experience" here in the US if he goes to the NAC's, JO, and SN??? Is it necessary to go abroad?
The level of competition is totally different in international competition. One gets to see the level of fencing that results usually from a whole level of training than our kids have here. If your child has any higher aspirations, it is necessary to travel abroad and test your mettle against the Europeans, and more and more, the Asians, who are training at a very high level (eg. see Christian Bauer in Bejing!). Domestic comeptitions are great and if your son or daughter doesn't have National Team aspirations, they are fine, but you can't move substatially up in the rankings without some respectable international results.
Not only is it important in terms of moving up the national rankings - it can be a great cultural and social experience for your fencer. When possible, we have been trying to get in an extra day - or even 1/2 a day - for sight seeing and absorbing as much as possible the local culture. And my fencer has made several international friends that she keeps in touch with via the internet and happily greets at the world cups. She has even learned a few words in several foreign languages to chat with her friends (Polish & Russian yes, High school Spanish not so much!).
What ever happens with my fencer's Olympic dreams - I am VERY happy she had the experience of international competition as I feel it has helped her grow as a person and expand her horizons.
Of course, it goes without saying that a young fencer must be performing well at domestic events before they can attend international ones...
With that said, even without national team aspirations it's worthwhile to make a trip or two overseas if you are eligible. It's an eye opening experience in a number of ways.
Any advice on particular competitions? Countries? Can anyone elaborate on the experience from point of view of parent and of child?
If your child is consistently winning their age group, placing in the top 8 and has a decent shot of doing well, it is a good idea to try for overseas competitions. If not, the kiddo could feel defeated, tired and lose their love for fencing.
Most teens are cognisant of their parents financial situation too and if it costing serious money, that is an added drain.
Continue with caution.... There is always next year.
The Momster
__________________ A friend will bail you out of jail,
a true friend will help you hide the body...: )
I just returned from a Satellite World Cup in Turku, Finland. I was taking a daughter to London to visit two other daughters currently studying there, and had checked around to see if there were any "nearby" tournaments during the time we'd be there. Finland fit the bill. So my two fencing daughters were able to participate in their first European FIE event.
If you want to get your feet wet in international FIE competitions, I'd strongly suggest trying some Satellite tournaments. They are World Cup events, but can be less competitive. Few US fencers attend, so there's also not much competition to get in. You go through the same process of applying through the USFA, so can learn how it all works without needing to be near the top of the point standings, which is required to get into the top World Cup events. The USFA does need to approve attendance, but I don't know all the criteria they use for those who aren't high on the standings. I suppose since my daughters are both C fencers, it was assumed they wouldn't embarrass the USA - I don't know if a U fencer would be able to fence for the US at even a Satellite.
There are of course other non World Cup tournaments all over Europe which you could attend. I'd go for word of mouth on finding those - most coaches who have been around for a while should have suggestions. My fencing daughter now in London has attended several, through contacts in her club there.
Most important, be sure the trip is fun. Be sure your fencer is experienced enough to make the trip worthwhile, but don't make the success of the trip depend on tournament results. Plan a few extra days to play tourist while you're there. Your biggest problem when you return to the States will be explaining to your kid why you can't do it again next month.
Last edited by OnTheEdge; 10-24-2007 at 04:55 AM..
Reason: spelling
If you want to get your feet wet in international FIE competitions, I'd strongly suggest trying some Satellite tournaments. They are World Cup events, but can be less competitive. Few US fencers attend, so there's also not much competition to get in. You go through the same process of applying through the USFA, so can learn how it all works without needing to be near the top of the point standings, which is required to get into the top World Cup events.
How do you find out about these "Satellite" events or non-world cup events that don't require points? I'd like to do some research before I approach the coach.
Select EN at the upper right hand corner (unless you read French!)
Go the the bar menu at the top of the page, select competitions, and then calendar from the pull down menu.
In the criteria for search boxes, select Senior, your weapon, your gender, "individual" for event, and under type, select A candidacy or satellite (you may need to do both, one at a time) and see what comes up.
It'll give you a list of meets and places and dates. There may be a PDF icon or website icon at the end of the meet line that can send you to more information about the meet.
Then, if you're interested in one or more, contact Corinne Greenman at the USFA and see if you can register for the list of US fencers. There will be deadline issues, so inquire at least a couple months before the event.
__________________
"Fraud is the creation of trust. And then: its betrayal."
William Black, Ph.D.
For World Cups each weapon has their own eligibility rules for determining who may be sent. There there's the exception:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2007-2008 Athlete's Handbook
Eligibility Exceptions: Fencers who do not meet eligibility critera, can receive waivers and be allowed to fence in World Cups. Fencers who are not eligible and are granted a waiver, will be allowed to fence with the following conditions: there is space left in the US allotment, and an additional referee is not required if they are accepted.
• ME, MF, MS, WE – If fencer is not eligible, fencer may compete under the above conditions.
• WF – If fencer is not eligible, fencer must contact the National Weapon Coach (Nat Goodhartz or Mike Pederson) prior to the deadline to request a waiver.
• WS – If fencer is not eligible, fencer must contact the National Weapon Coach (Ed Korfanty) prior to the deadline to request a waiver.
So for 4 of the 6 weapons it's fairly trivia to go to even world cups, unless the maximum number of slots is already filled or if one happens to be the #5 or #9 athlete interested. Domestic tournaments in European countries don't even have that restriction.
Nahouw.net is a good source for finding such tournaments (think of it as a European FRED).
__________________
"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
For World Cups each weapon has their own eligibility rules for determining who may be sent. There there's the exception:
So for 4 of the 6 weapons it's fairly trivia to go to even world cups, unless the maximum number of slots is already filled or if one happens to be the #5 or #9 athlete interested. Domestic tournaments in European countries don't even have that restriction.
Nahouw.net is a good source for finding such tournaments (think of it as a European FRED).
Thanks for the nahouw link. I thought FIE website was the only one for international tourneys and I was wondering how others were finding out about those. Now I know it too. But I think I just opened a Pandora's Box. Oy! Like NAC's aren't enough to deal with. But I'll keep it for future reference since kiddo is asking about them.
I just looked at the Nahouw site and notice that is says two meets in Algiers Algeria are "modified." The meets are on the senior world circuit.
Anyone know what that means?
The last meet to qualify for the Os in in Algeria for saber. My daughter and I both refuse to have her go there. I've been talking to some of the other fencers who have been to Algeria recently and were petrified. They truly feared for their lives.
Is there a chance that someone in the FIE has opened their eyes and sending kids to a city that has regular bombings/terrorism in it is a bad idea?
Please let me know... also if there is a way to petition the FIE to keep from having a meet in a certain place, how does one do that??
The Momster
Still UNbombed... and in one piece.
__________________ A friend will bail you out of jail,
a true friend will help you hide the body...: )
I just looked at the Nahouw site and notice that is says two meets in Algiers Algeria are "modified." The meets are on the senior world circuit.
Probably a reference to the MS event gaining GP status. Was originally Cat A, until someone noticed that all MS GP events during the qualification cycle were in Europe.
-B
__________________
"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
My daughter and I both refuse to have her go there. I've been talking to some of the other fencers who have been to Algeria recently and were petrified. They truly feared for their lives.
Is there a chance that someone in the FIE has opened their eyes and sending kids to a city that has regular bombings/terrorism in it is a bad idea?
Please let me know... also if there is a way to petition the FIE to keep from having a meet in a certain place, how does one do that??
The Momster
Still UNbombed... and in one piece.
It's bad enough that you are suppose to avoid getting 'touched' on the strip, now you have to worry about getting hit by a BOMB???? Hmmmm have to rethink carefully about this international thing
Glad you haven't been bombed and is still in one piece MO!
It's bad enough that you are suppose to avoid getting 'touched' on the strip, now you have to worry about getting hit by a BOMB???? Hmmmm have to rethink carefully about this international thing
That is true IF you could stay there. However, the meets for the US to qualify for the Os are all over the place. There has to be one in Africa.
The WS team right now is tied for third in the world. They have to be in the top 8 to be an auto qualifier.
Because of that if they don't maintain their ranking and it comes down to the points scored in Africa, they would have to go to make the O team.
The question is, what do you do?
Go to the qualifier and risk your life or let someone else go?
The meet is a Grand Prix so it could be important.
However, making a firm showing and not needing to go to the meet is the best way to proceed.
Only a certain amount of points count for Europe.
If only we could stay in Europe, I loved Torino....
The MOmster
__________________ A friend will bail you out of jail,
a true friend will help you hide the body...: )
So this is the current U.S. State Department view on the matter. If you go, I would make specific arrangements with respect to the whole through the State Department. Since this is an Olympic "thing," they either might work with you or tell you definitely do not come:
This information is current as of today, document.write(Date()+".") Fri Oct 26 2007 16:32:02 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time).
ALGERIA
September 14, 2007
This Travel Warning is being updated to alert U.S. citizens to recent terrorist attacks directed against foreigners in Algeria. The threat from terrorism in many areas of the country continues to pose a significant security risk. This supersedes the Travel Warning issued on March 22, 2007.
The Department of State urges U.S. citizens who travel to Algeria to evaluate carefully the risk posed to their personal safety. Sustained small-scale terrorist attacks including bombings, false roadblocks, kidnappings, ambushes, and assassinations occur regularly. A roadside bomb targeted a bus transporting foreign workers of a U.S. company in the western part of Algiers in December 2006. In April 2007 three suicide bombers detonated vehicle-borne explosives outside of government buildings in Algiers. Three more suicide bomb attacks in July and September 2007 in Lakhdaria, Batna and Dellys killed more than 80 people.
The Department of State recommends that U.S. citizens avoid overland travel in the mountainous northern part of the country, and particularly in the area stretching from Algiers east to the Tunisian border.
The U.S. Government considers the potential threat to U.S. Embassy personnel assigned to Algiers sufficiently serious to require them to live and work under strict security restrictions. These practices limit, and may occasionally prevent, the movement of U.S. Embassy officials in certain areas of the country. The Government of Algeria requires U.S. Embassy personnel traveling outside the province of Algiers or to the Casbah within Algiers to seek permission and to have a security escort. Travel to the military zone established around the Hassi Messaoud oil center requires Government of Algeria authorization. U.S. Government personnel are permitted by the Embassy to move freely in many areas in the center of Algiers, but are required to maintain prudent security practices. Travel by personnel to areas of the city outside this zone requires prior coordination with the Embassy’s Regional Security Office. American visitors are encouraged to contact the Embassy’s Consular Section for the most recent safety and security information concerning travel in the city of Algiers.
The Department of State cautions Americans who reside or travel in Algeria to take prudent security measures while in the country, including making provisions for reliable and experienced logistical support. This support should include being met upon arrival and accompanied for the duration of the visit. Visitors should ensure that tour operators and host organizations perform all notifications and coordination with Algerian police and security officials during their stay. Visitors to Algeria are advised to stay only in hotels where adequate security is provided. All visitors to Algeria should remain alert and adhere to prudent security practices such as avoiding predicable travel patterns and maintaining a low profile.
American citizens in or traveling to Algeria also are urged to register and to obtain updated information on travel and security in Algeria at the consular section of the U.S. Embassy in Algiers or on our travel registration website at https://travelregistration.state.gov/ibrs/. The Embassy is located at 5 Chemin Cheikh Bachir El-Ibrahimi, B.P. 408 (Alger-Gare) 16000, in the capital city of Algiers. The Embassy can be reached at telephone [213] (21) 691-425; [213] (21) 691-186; fax [213] (21) 693-979; or email consularAlgiers@state.gov. U.S. citizens who require emergency services may telephone the Embassy at [213] (21) 691-255 Up-to-date information on security conditions as well as general information concerning Algeria and the U.S. Embassy is also available on the Embassy's website http://algiers.usembassy.gov/.
For the latest security information, Americans traveling abroad should regularly monitor the Department’s Internet website at http://travel.state.gov where the Consular Information Sheet for Algeria and the current Worldwide Caution and Middle East and North Africa Public Announcements can be found. Up-to-date information on security can also be obtained by calling 1-888-407-4747 toll-free in the United States and Canada or, for callers outside the United States and Canada, a regular toll line at 1-202-501-4444. These numbers are available from 8:00 a.m. To 8:00 p.m. Eastern time, Monday through Friday (except U.S. federal holidays).
__________________ --Be merciful to those who doubt. Jude 22.
The question is, what do you do?
Go to the qualifier and risk your life or let someone else go?
This is a question only you (or your daughter) can answer.
Personally I wouldn't risk my life to qualify for any fencing competition -- be it the Olympics -- but then again I'm far from olympic 'material' so I highly unlikely to ever be put in that position.
(I had the impression the original poster was talking about international competition in general, but I may have misunderstood. )
This is a question only you (or your daughter) can answer.
Personally I wouldn't risk my life to qualify for any fencing competition -- be it the Olympics -- but then again I'm far from olympic 'material' so I highly unlikely to ever be put in that position.
(I had the impression the original poster was talking about international competition in general, but I may have misunderstood. )
Personally I think all the fuss about the Olympics is inane. It it a really hard meet to get in but not that hard to win for fencing. The best in the world are prevented from coming due to the restrictions on numbers and whether there is a team event.
Algeria is not in our future.
College is.
The Momster
__________________ A friend will bail you out of jail,
a true friend will help you hide the body...: )
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