Maybe a dumb question but........

[cjhutch]

I posted this before under general because I did not see Parent's Corner until someone was good enough to mention it. Sorry to those of you that read this under "general" but I am looking for any and all suggestion.....

am actually the mom of a fencer who wants very much to make an Olympic team one day (I sure a lot of people have that particular dream) and he is starting to make the national tournaments. He went to JOs last year and did pretty well (for his first national tournament, that is). Anyway, I want to give him as much support as I can and I am wondering how most people afford to make all these tournaments!!?? He wants to make at least one NAC, JOs, and of course Nationals this year. We just got a credit card that assigns 20,000 travel miles every year and a free $50 companion ticket (we will also try to use it to make most of our household bills and then just pay the credit card off every month-at least that is the plan) so we accrue more miles so that will help but what else? Is everyone out there just better off than us, or are there any suggestions or secrets strategies that you all use to afford all of these trips?? I would LOVE any and all suggestions or tips that you may have picked up over the years.

[NNR]

Get ready - even in the upper reaches of the point standings, there is very little help with travel. In cadet, junior and senior World Cup there is travel reimbursement up to $400 or $800 for the top 4 or 6 competitors. There is NO national money for domestic travel, regardless of how high you are (although there is an occasional stipend of $128 if you finish 1 or 2 in a NAC.) My daughter has been ranked in the top 4 of every age group since Y-12 and we have been traveling to 10 to 12 competitions a year, domestic and foreign. She is looking at 2012 and there is no end in sight! Depending on where you live, you may have only one airline that flies out and will therefore be able to accumulate miles, although we try to fly with no connections whenever possible as it is cheaper than having to replace all the equipment once you get where you are going. When she got older, we paired up with another family who we liked and one parent took both kids, saving one airfare occasionally. Unfortunately, the bottom line is that with someone who is interested in international competition, you have to get up in the point standings and stay there, which usually entails going to all the NAC's and as many international competitions as you can stand. Good Luck!

[Capt. Slo-mo]

CJ:

I wish there was an easy answer to your situation, 'cause of there was, we'd have saved a bathtub full of money!

A couple of observations, which are not meant in any way to be discouraging:

1. If your son is 17, and only in his second year of competition, he's substantially trailing his peers (and especially his peers overseas) in experience.

2. To overcome this handicap and shoot for an Olympic berth, he needs lots of practice, natural ability, top level coaching in a supportive environment, and, alas, as much competition experience as possible both here and abroad.

All this costs money. Lots and lots of money. There is some support available, but it's almost a Catch-22: you can't get funding until you have great international results, and you can't get great international results without spending a lot of money go overseas.

Once you're out of the Y-14 and Cadet age brackets, the USFA no longer ponies up any money for domestic results. This means you have to place well overseas to earn "Performance Enhancement Award" money. It can range from a few hundred dollars for a top 20 finish at a junior world cup event to $5,000 for winning a Senior World Championship. All of this money is only disbursed as re-imbursements of receipts.

There are a couple of charts in the athlete handbook that show what placings at which kind of meet earn how much money. A thing to note is that the meet has to have at least 80-some participants, and have a strength factor of at least 1.5 before it will pay anything out. So, there is a base amount...say $1,000 for winning a junior World Cup, that is then multiplied by the strength factor.

That's how you make some of your money back...but it's not easy at all, and it seldom, if ever, covers all your costs, even for those who are consistently performing well at the international level.

The other, even rarer form of monetary support, comes from being on the US National Team. Then, they pay for the athlete to fly over and stay at World Championship and Zonal Championship events. In the last year leading up to an Olympic event, there may or may not be some travel and training stipend money available to certain members of the US National Team.

But again, it's all performance based.

So, start sending him to as many events as you can, and see how he does and how your pocketbook holds out. Just be aware that the learning curve is especially steep in the men's ranks, once you go overseas, so the first few times may well be an eye-opener. And a bit discouraging.

But if he likes the competition, and has a thick skin, let him go for it, and see where it takes you!

[dcmdale]

The very first thing you should do is look at Mo's posts in the Parent's Corner. Mo is doing the pain of being on the Olympic path this year. Following that dream is a rough ride and if you go that road, you should do it with your eyes open.

Financing an Olympic dream if you are not seriously wealthy is tough. I know parents who are putting large mortgages on their houses and doing major damage to their retirement funds to finance their kid's sport. Begging from family members sometimes works. Getting sponsorships is really iffy.

You are not asking a dumb question at all. I think that many of us struggle with the expense of competing, but most of us try to put that aside when we are at the venue. (If our kids feel our concern about the cost of the competition, frequently that will cause them to fence less well defeating the value of bringing them in the first place.)

[fencerwallet]

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

Once you're out of the Y-14 and Cadet age brackets, the USFA no longer ponies up any money for domestic results.

Whaaa? Seriously, where is this in the Handbook?

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Which part: the Y-14 or the no money period for domestic results?

As recently as a few years ago, there was some USFA Performance Enhancement Award money...basically at the level of winning/top 4 placement (?) at the NAC or Summer Nats level for Y-14 and Cadets. It may have only been for Summer Nats...it's been a while. And it was generally only a couple hundred bucks at best, as I recall.

In looking at the funding section of the 2006-2007 Athlete Handbook, I see nothing about domestic funding anymore. The only thing available for Cadets/Juniors is at certain World Cups and the World Championships.

[fencerwallet]

Okay. I thought you were saying there was still money out there for domestic results for Y14 and cadet. For a second there, the flash of not knowing of potentially untapped money caused my brain synapses to short circuit in excitement.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

To tell the truth, I thought it might still be in play...but it's been quite a while since we were in that position.

Sorry to get you needlessly in a lather!!

[OMCEPKEN]

Better to invest in lessons and local tournaments. If you travel, maximize your time. Send a note ahead to local clubs and find out good times to practice before and after tournament. Better yet to forget about too many tournaments, and go to a good camp, or work out at a great club for a few nights in a row. The cream will rise to the top...tournaments are only a small part of the equation.

[Allen Evans]

Another important issue is getting support of your club at home. One of the clubs I previously worked at (Salle Auriol) was very good about supporting their kids when they were in pursuit of a team spot, to the point where often we held fund raisers and donated out of our own pockets to pay for trips.

This might be a little unusual for some clubs, but was de riguer there. Having a large group of people who understand your sport and are on your side is always a good thing.

Allen Evans

[Mo]

Originally Posted by cjhutch

am actually the mom of a fencer who wants very much to make an Olympic team one day (I sure a lot of people have that particular dream) and he is starting to make the national tournaments. He went to JOs last year and did pretty well (for his first national tournament, that is). Anyway, I want to give him as much support as I can and I am wondering how most people afford to make all these tournaments!!??
Is everyone out there just better off than us, or are there any suggestions or secrets strategies that you all use to afford all of these trips?? I would LOVE any and all suggestions or tips that you may have picked up over the years.

There are three more meets for the Olympic qualification before it is over for who will actually make the Olympic team in WS.

Had I know what I know now, I am not even 50-50 on whether I would have let my daughter continue in this INSANE race or have her kidnapped and deprogrammed some where.

I would say to humor his dream. The odds of it happening are very very slim.
My daughter goes to an ART Therapist/Dr for adjustments on her knee and IT band. There was a new receptionist training there one time when she had an appointment.
She proceeded to say, while looking at my daughter, (which really annoyed the crap out of me) that she wanted her kids to be in the Olympics and fencing was a really "easy" way for them to do it due to how "easy" of a sport it is and how few people are in it. She concluded that her future kids chances would be better for making a team. ARGGGHHHHHHH

For a male starting foil at 17, for some reason I am assuming that is his weapon, he isn't going to make it. The foil guys all start when they are tiny, like 9-10. They train for years and years. They have tons of experience.

Use your money wisely. Let him get as good as he can. It will most likely help him get into college. But for heaven's sake be realistic.

The pure garbage a fencer has to deal with to make an Olympic team is next to unbearable. My daughter lost her funding for a while because she wouldn't say she would go to Algeria for a meet. It is an important meet but it all could have been quits over that one competition. She valued her life more and btw that meet is still on despite all the recent bombings and Travel advisory.

Both the USFA and the USOC didn't want to deal with it, actually there was one person on in the USFA that would help but it didn't really do a lot of good.
Once the coach realized that she was not going to budge on the Algeria thing, he finally signed her contract allowing her to get her funding so she could compete. The harm done to her emotionally over having her coach refuse to fund her, she saw it as a huge betrayal was very upsetting to her.

It was really awful and caused a lot of stress in our family.

This is just one of many things.

Another girl on the team is having a horrid time right now and is kind of falling apart.

There is so much pressure on the kids it is unreal. The Olympics are BIG BUSINESS and if an athlete is broken there is usually another one waiting to take their place. The ombudsman at the USOC called it "Five Ring Fever."
The Os are all about money. The coaches, the USFA, the USOC all make money from the kids. There is nothing pure or noble about the Olympic experience. The kids usually are the ones who end up emotionally scarred and screwed up. It is sooo expensive too.
We are a home educating family. Fencing took so much time out of our family togetherness.
The coaches and even the USFA officials don't seem to want parents involved in the travel and support of the kids. ALWAYS travel with your kiddo especially at first.
The main issue is finding a coach who is doing it for the right reason. Many of the coaches never made the Olympics themselves and so push their students to do so with a vengence. They totally lose sight that they are dealing with kids.
As in interesting tidbit, when I was talking to people about going to Algeria, which you should look up, the place is dangerous as can be.
The competitive coaches ie all said she should go with the exception of Mr. Ma. The college coaches, all of them that I asked said NO WAY!! They saw the value of living a full life as opposed to "filling a bucket" with points.
Trying to make an O team puts you in a fairly sick twisted world. In Europe it can be worth it. The athletes in Italy, France, Germany, Romainia etc. (I had a great talk with the Romanian girls in France) all are appalled when I tell them about the lack of support the US girls get compared to their benefits. A few of them speak English really well and are a total trip.
The best part of all this was being able to meet kids from all over the world. Fencing is small and you see the same people over and over.
All in all, get him as good as he can get to go to college. Spend your money wisely and don't worry about the Os.
Most Sincerely,
The Momster

[remise]

It is as MO said. My son started fencing at 5. He trained rigorously and by aged 9 we began seeing the benefits. At 13, I began taking him around the country to different tournaments. It almost killed me financially.

By aged 18, he was so burned out that after graduation, he no longer fences. It is an extensive, exhausting, (for the fencer),and financially crushing experience (for the parent).

[sleepyweasle]

It is a good idea to have your own (parental) goals vs. your fencer's goals. My goal has always been for my fencer to enjoy herself, get into the college of her choice, and get to travel around the world and have interesting experiences and meet all kinds of new friends. Her goal is to get to the 2012 Olympics. My goals have been met in full (Thank Goodness after all the time, effort, and money we've spent!) . She is still struggling with her goal but is still pressing onward. Next year she starts college and, who knows? Her goals may change. So long as she is enjoying her ride - we're with her, whatever she ultimately decides to do. But it is a heck of a lot easier to hang in there with her knowing that she has met all of our goals while still having her own future ahead of her. Just remember to remind your fencer of 1) how proud you are of them for trying and doing their best; 2) how cool it is for them to be going to all the competitions they are attending (whoever DREAMED my own kid would be fencing Olympians at World Cups!!!); and 3) they are supposed to be ENJOYING what they are doing - if it is becoming something they dread - due to pain, frustration, or sacrificing too many other things in their life - they should take a step back and re-evaluate their goals.

[fatfencer]

This country is so wealthy but unfortunately it doesn't sponsor the kids.

The kids feel the stress of their parents and I've seen at least one promising child fencer turn into a drunken college kid who prefers the inside of a bottle to the inside of his mask.

I'm very thankful that martial arts wasn't anywhere near that expensive.

As an adult competitor I'm very thankful and happy to be in a room where people are doing their best; contrast that to daily life as a mortgage broker where people seem to be doing their best to be mediocre. I read Dilbert and think my life is a comic strip!!!

I'm thankful for fencing because there is a truth in honest, mindful effort. Kids don't appreciate that much methinks. But when they become adults I think they appreciate it alot.

The Olympics is no longer what it once was. I think the fencers should really look to what it means to be at the top of the fencing world. On a regular basis its the World Championships and the larger World Cup events. Because it only comes every 4 years and there's so much politicking its not about honest competition anymore.

If a fencer can get to a point where he's competitive on an International level, then the Olympics make sense because its kind of a by the way event. It only happens every 4 years, but a good fencer can be champion during everyone of those years, not attend the Olympics, and win a few World Cups and voila you have Golubitsky!! He's no slouch. I think he won a Silver though in the Olympics.

The Olympics has a mystique about it no doubt, but it's possible to win a Gold Medal in it and be essentially out of the sport in a few years.

OR

You can be completely dominant in your sport and the Olympics is just another jewel in the crown.

What I'm trying to get at is sometimes lofty goals are best approached softly and with a delicate hand. A forceful, winner take all, spend all the money approach is not likely to work and may burnout all involved.

I feel for you parents, I really do.

Fatfencer