How to put a grip on a foil?

[ctaser1331]

wow that was a lame title, anyway, i am a beginner foil fencer, but i recently purchased a foil and they sent the wrong kind of grip, i sent it back and they sent it back again with the right grip but it wasn't on the rest of the foil, plz, how do i put the grip on and what kind of screwdriver does it use. it looks like maybe an alan wrench but im not sure... plz help out

[Cookeit]

Ask your parents to help you out... ^^

But it will most likely need a hex key/wrench to tighten it.

Simply put the grip on, slide the little nut/bolt thing in the hole, then tighten.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by ctaser1331

wow that was a lame title, anyway, i am a beginner foil fencer, but i recently purchased a foil and they sent the wrong kind of grip, i sent it back and they sent it back again with the right grip but it wasn't on the rest of the foil, plz, how do i put the grip on and what kind of screwdriver does it use. it looks like maybe an alan wrench but im not sure... plz help out

Look into the grip....does the tang (the portion of teh blade inside the grip that the but goes onto) project out the top of teh nut, and does that nut have a hexagonal outer shape?

If so, that's what's generally referred to as an "outside hex" pommel and requires a wrench that fits around it (I sell those, by the way)

if the not has a round exterior shape and a hexagonal recess, that's an "inside hex" and simply requires a 6mm allen wrench (which you can buy at almost any hardware store)

You do NOT want a pommel with a screwdriver slot....it's difficult to tighten properly without putting a lot of undue stress on it.

[brtech]

Buy the right wrench and carry it with you.

There is a split ring washer under the nut. It's important, don't leave it out.

[ctaser1331]

thanks guys

[XanderHal]

And if it's an electric foil, there should be a little slot for the wires so that they aren't pinched under the grip when you tighten it. I wrecked a wiring job not being careful about that once...

[brtech]

Okay, maybe we should run through all the steps.

1. If possible, put the blade in a vise, tang up, groove facing away from you
2. Slide the spaghetti tube on the wire all the way down. It should go past the shoulder, slightly into the wide part of the groove on the blade
3. Slide the wire through the guard, slide the guard onto the tang with the mouse hole for the wire towards the groove, making sure the wire goes in the mouse hole.
4. Slide the wire through the connector, slide the connector onto the tang. Some connectors have mouse holes, if yours does, make sure the wire stays in the mouse hole. If you fence right handed, the connector goes on the left.
5. Bend the wire flat against the guard, facing away from you.
6. Slide the pad onto the tang
7. Slide the handle onto the tang. There is a mouse hole for the wire, make sure the wire stays in the mouse hole, and the mouse hole aligns with the groove. Push the handle down all the way
8. Put the washer on the tang (sometimes the washer just stays in the handle). You want exactly one washer, not zero, not two.
9. Double check that the spaghetti is still down past the guard into the groove
10. Thread the pommel nut onto the tang. Use the right size wrench (inside hex or outside hex). Tighten enough so the guard doesn't move when you wiggle it.
11. Prepare the wire. Cut the wire off (if it's a rewire) about an inch past the spaghetti. Strip the insulation on the wire all the way down to the spaghetti. On a french wire, there is a silver solder coat, no more work needed. On a german wire, there is a varnish coating that must be removed. Use sandpaper or emory cloth to get it shiny copper colored.
12. Attach the wire to the connector. Directions vary depending on the type of connector. For a german style 2 prong, push the wire through the hole in the middle of the bracket. Use a wrench on the bottom nut and a screwdriver to loosen the socket. Wrap a little less than one turn of wire clockwise underneath the washer, on top of the plastic insulator. Holding the wire in place, tighten with a screwdriver. Cut off any free end of the wire. For a french style 2 prong, wrap one turn of bare wire counter-clockwise between the two nuts at the bottom of the contact. For a bayonet, the wire goes under the small screw at the base of the connector (one turn, clockwise)
13. Test.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by brtech

For a bayonet, the wire goes under the small screw at the base of the connector (one turn, clockwise)

Is under the screw or under the tiny washer preferable?

[brtech]

Under the washer is preferable. I forgot that there is a washer there. Maybe it's because I so seldom have to change one. The reason it's better is that it doesn't move relative to the screw, which tends to make it stay in the right place when you tighten it. With the size of the screw, it's usually pretty easy to keep the wire under the screw head, but putting it under the washer is better.

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

Originally Posted by brtech

Buy the right wrench and carry it with you.

There is a split ring washer under the nut. It's important, don't leave it out.

I haven't used washers in my foils for a decade or more. Is this a mistake? I cannot see the advantage. Could you enlighten me? I think I stopped using them when, tightening my grip, the washer mashed outward and caused great difficulty removing the grip. Then, sometimes, I would have to work with screwdrivers and a hammer to remove the mashed washer from the inside of the grip after I had removed it.

PS...I use the outside hex. I purchased ONE outside hex wrench about 15 or 20 years ago. Now I have three. Do they reproduce? And if so, is it asexual? Because I don't think I ever let my original wrench out when it was in heat.

[brtech]

Originally Posted by Beloit Fencer of Old

I haven't used washers in my foils for a decade or more. Is this a mistake? I cannot see the advantage. Could you enlighten me? I think I stopped using them when, tightening my grip, the washer mashed outward and caused great difficulty removing the grip. Then, sometimes, I would have to work with screwdrivers and a hammer to remove the mashed washer from the inside of the grip after I had removed it.

Think about every screw and nut assembly you ever worked on where the screw holds some part tightly (mechanical fastener). How many had a washer between the nut that turns and the metal/plastic/whatever that didn't? How many of them are just plain flat washers? I'll bet 99% of such assemblies use some kind of washer that is not flat (you may also have a flat washer especially on a plastic or other softer surface). The washer prevents the nut from backing off. A split ring washer is often used on a fairly large thread, where you tighten with great force. A simple "tooth" washer tends to be flattened in that circumstance. Use of the washer will keep the nut tighter longer. Weapons that are constantly loosening usually don't have the washer.

Always use a washer, a split ring washer, between the handle and the nut.

PS...I use the outside hex. I purchased ONE outside hex wrench about 15 or 20 years ago. Now I have three. Do they reproduce? And if so, is it asexual? Because I don't think I ever let my original wrench out when it was in heat.

I applaud your choice of outside hex. It is the most rugged, least expensive choice. Since wrenches come in "innies" and "outies", I would assume they are sexual reproduction. You must be selecting for outies. Are you sure you haven't thrown away or given away the odd innie you found? The heat cycles of wrenches are poorly researched. Wrenches originally come from temperate climes, but not all wrenches are tempered any more.

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

Originally Posted by brtech

Think about every screw and nut assembly you ever worked on where the screw holds some part tightly (mechanical fastener). How many had a washer between the nut that turns and the metal/plastic/whatever that didn't? How many of them are just plain flat washers? I'll bet 99% of such assemblies use some kind of washer that is not flat (you may also have a flat washer especially on a plastic or other softer surface). The washer prevents the nut from backing off. A split ring washer is often used on a fairly large thread, where you tighten with great force. A simple "tooth" washer tends to be flattened in that circumstance. Use of the washer will keep the nut tighter longer. Weapons that are constantly loosening usually don't have the washer.

Always use a washer, a split ring washer, between the handle and the nut.


I applaud your choice of outside hex. It is the most rugged, least expensive choice. Since wrenches come in "innies" and "outies", I would assume they are sexual reproduction. You must be selecting for outies. Are you sure you haven't thrown away or given away the odd innie you found? The heat cycles of wrenches are poorly researched. Wrenches originally come from temperate climes, but not all wrenches are tempered any more.

Washers: I have found that my weapons will go months without having to be tightened. One or two of them have not been tightened since I put them together several years ago. On the other hand, EACH of my outside hex nuts is slightly mashed on one end...such that when I remove a nut, it will not slide all the way into the barrel of the hex wrench. This is obviously because I tighten them up real well (yes, I have big, muscular arms...awesome for opponent off-targets!) Perhaps my nuts are making up for the lack of washers? Or perhaps I should simply wash my nuts more. Hmmmm

Wrenches: Maybe I should get some DNA testing done.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by Beloit Fencer of Old

Or perhaps I should simply wash my nuts more.

f.net quote of the day...

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

If so, that's what's generally referred to as an "outside hex" pommel and requires a wrench that fits around it (I sell those, by the way)

PF and other vendors have excellent outside hex wrenches.

A possibly less expensive alternative is available at most local hardware stores.

I am referring to a so-called "Six way screwdriver". They usually have two sizes of blade screwdrivers and 2 sizes of Phillips screwdriver tips. One pair of tips has a hexagonal middle section with one-quarter of an inch dimension across the flats. The other pair of tips will have a hex middle section which is five sixteenths of an inch across the flats.

It turns out that 8 mm is almost the same size as five sixteenths of an inch.

So you can use the the end that usually takes the five sixteenths of an inch hex section to tighten 8 mm outside hex pistol grip pommels.

I have bought the six way screwdrivers for as little as $3 but you may have to pay a little more. But make sure that one part of the screwdriver fits a five sixteenths of an inch hex section.

[brtech]

I know that trick and have used it.

The downside is leverage. All you get is the screwdriver handle to grip. The outside hex wrench has a T handle. That gives you much more leverage.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by brtech

I know that trick and have used it.

The downside is leverage. All you get is the screwdriver handle to grip. The outside hex wrench has a T handle. That gives you much more leverage.

You are right. This was my solution used for another screwdriver. That is a nail through the handle.

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

You are right. This was my solution used for another screwdriver. That is a nail through the handle.

Bill...It looks like that screwdriver with the nail through it is a Craftsman...I can see the letters C thru S. I have some bad news for you. Craftsman may not honor their famous Lifetime Warranty now that you have put a nail through the handle.

[twisterfencing]

ctaser:

Try this. Click on the blue:converting french to pistol..

Its been covered a couple of times.


Gary Spruill

Originally Posted by ctaser1331

wow that was a lame title, anyway, i am a beginner foil fencer, but i recently purchased a foil and they sent the wrong kind of grip, i sent it back and they sent it back again with the right grip but it wasn't on the rest of the foil, plz, how do i put the grip on and what kind of screwdriver does it use. it looks like maybe an alan wrench but im not sure... plz help out

[wbowman]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

You do NOT want a pommel with a screwdriver slot....it's difficult to tighten properly without putting a lot of undue stress on it.

Interesting. Never heard that before. I've always used screwdriver-slotted pommels on all my weapons (foils and epees, anyway) with no apparent problems.
I have a little, short, fat-handled screwdriver that fits into the same little bag I keep my spare body cords in, so it's always available. No having to call out "who's got a tightening tool?" (I always wondered why people who used hex-nutted pommels didn't just buy a tightening tool and keep it with them near the strip).

[brtech]

If you have a screwdriver that pretty much fills the slot, and you are careful using it, then you won't have problems. You have the same leverage issue as above.

What armorers see is a lot of messed up slots because people try using screwdrivers that are too small, they don't hold them properly, or they overtorque. It's fairly hard to screw up the hex shapes, which is why we recommend them.