I love seeing parents 'involved' in fencing with their kids, but this guy is crazy.

[Warrior Princess]

Originally Posted by Got_Fenced_In

Exactly. I obviously wouldn't just 'hand him a rulebook', I just thought that was funny. Nor would I be a big pain in the butt to him, because while that may work, it is disrespecting an adult.

I know I shouldn't, but I've had this guy so many times, and he keeps making the same bad calls. (he just completely ignores everything in t.56) I've tryed everything else. He also tends to do this mostly with the fencers that his dad coaches.

[mrbiggs]

There are a lot of bad referees and part of being a fencer is having to deal with them.

The only way to escape them is to get better so you can be more picky with the tournaments you choose to attend. But even at World Championships, there are fencers who lose bouts on bad calls.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

So, if he wants to help out, that's great, but he shouldn't be reffing his kid. He'll be massively wrong wwhen he refs OTHER people too, but there won't be the favoritism that's hurting the most.

[bigdawg2121]

Originally Posted by Warrior Princess

I know I shouldn't, but I've had this guy so many times, and he keeps making the same bad calls. (he just completely ignores everything in t.56) I've tryed everything else. He also tends to do this mostly with the fencers that his dad coaches.

Any chance you're ignoring t.55?

[annacattiva]

Originally Posted by Warrior Princess

I know I shouldn't, but I've had this guy so many times, and he keeps making the same bad calls. (he just completely ignores everything in t.56) I've tryed everything else. He also tends to do this mostly with the fencers that his dad coaches.

Yeah... showing your ref the section of the rulebook which instructs him to call a fencing phrase correctly isn't really going to produce any happy results. If he's stating that your opponent gets the touch because, for example, her point was deflected before she hit you, you can argue about that, but most of what's in t.56 I think would come quite solidly under the category of questions of fact rather than misapplication of the rules. He might be a dreadful referee (sounds like he is) but you're not going to win your argument this way.

Anna

[Got_Fenced_In]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

There are a lot of bad referees and part of being a fencer is having to deal with them.

The only way to escape them is to get better so you can be more picky with the tournaments you choose to attend. But even at World Championships, there are fencers who lose bouts on bad calls.

Agreed. I fenced today, and I had a really terrible ref. I was upset afterwards, for a minute or so, until I realized, 'Well, if he's not seeing my actions, I need to either change them or make them more clear.' I did, and it worked. I didn't have to question his calls, or embarrass him, OR hand him a rulebook.

[crquack]

Where is the coach?

+1

I think going to this guy directly will not solve anything. The coach should have authority over what goes in the club and a *discrete* word in his ear might do the trick.

There are of course clubs where even this will be a total waste of time. Furthermore, some people will not change whatever you say to them.

As far as you are concerned directly, it is your brother who is getting the short end of the stick. Why not:
a) Watch his bouts refereed by the said person.
b) Quietly add up the score according to *your* observation
c) Talk to your brother afterwards and give him your view of the bout
d) Discourage your brother from getting hung up on bad refereeing. Get him to concentrate on his fencing, regardless of the result.

[Got_Fenced_In]

Originally Posted by crquack

As far as you are concerned directly, it is your brother who is getting the short end of the stick. Why not:
a) Watch his bouts refereed by the said person.
b) Quietly add up the score according to *your* observation
c) Talk to your brother afterwards and give him your view of the bout
d) Discourage your brother from getting hung up on bad refereeing. Get him to concentrate on his fencing, regardless of the result.

Oh, I generally do.

It's a good idea.

[lefty_monster]

You really shouldn't worry about seeming disrespectful in correcting him. Just say politely to him that the rule book does not specify that the touch is annulled if the knees are not bent. Call him sir. Speak respectfully. It might work. Other than that, call an adult over and have him/her handle this guy. You really shouldn't let him do that and record the results. It's just not right.

[annacattiva]

Originally Posted by lefty_monster

You really shouldn't worry about seeming disrespectful in correcting him. Just say politely to him that the rule book does not specify that the touch is annulled if the knees are not bent. Call him sir. Speak respectfully. It might work. Other than that, call an adult over and have him/her handle this guy. You really shouldn't let him do that and record the results. It's just not right.

The problem is that the disrespect seems to already be there (he's "crazy", has a "tendency to constantly make things up or something", he's "screwing up"). The OP "hates to 'disrespect' him, but..." she certainly doesn't respect him. Which means that behind whatever she says, no matter how polite, there IS disrespect, and a lot of times people can feel that. So yes, I think she SHOULD worry about seeming disrespectful, not because it's an older person and she's younger, or because it's someone's father, but because he's a person. Get the coach to talk to him. Hopefully, the coach can handle it without anybody feeling disrespect, and he has the benefit of authority.

Anna

[Got_Fenced_In]

I'm a 'she', thank you ^^

But no, I might think he's really quite silly, but he'd never know it. I'm always very friendly to him, and he to I. I just think his judging is atrocious. I want you to understand that's really the only problem here. Otherwise, he's a nice guy. I just think he should either make an attempt to learn the rules or stay out of judging.

So I agree with LM.


Anyway, I'm thinking I'll close this board, now. It was just for ranting, really. That IS, possible, right? For me to close it? Or just the mods? I have to find out.

[H Man]

The vanacular of your post clearly indicates that you are also not familiar with the rules, to wit: judge vs referee. Reading the rules is but half, understanding the the important "t" rules is another in the context of a phrase of fencing.


FYI, I always have a copy with me.

[Lemonaide]

Originally Posted by Got_Fenced_In

At one point, during one of my brother's fencing classes, our coach needed volunteers to judge the bouts for the kids. So it was me, and a couple of parents. This one guy, had a son who was about eight. The kid had been fencing a couple of years, but the father had no idea whatsoever how to judge. I overheard him judging a bout between his son and my brother. He explained to my brother that he was giving all of the touches to his son because 'well, you were crouching down too low on your attacks so it doesn't count and he gets the touches.' And it isn't the only time this has happened, either. I swear, the guy has a tendency to constantly make things up or something.

I realize this could almost be considered off topic. Sorry. But I'd like to know how everyone here thinks I could tell this guy he's screwing up. Because, well, I'm much younger than him, and I hate to 'disrespect' him, but.. He's really clueless. 'Nuff said

So. Opinions?

How horrible. If you guys were nicer to me especially after my hyterical-ectomy, I would have continued fencing longer and ref'd for you - I used to do a pretty good job and never played favs even if I had favorite fencers. Too bad, make a rule that parents can't ref their kids.

The end.

[annacattiva]

Originally Posted by H Man

The vanacular of your post clearly indicates that you are also not familiar with the rules, to wit: judge vs referee. Reading the rules is but half, understanding the the important "t" rules is another in the context of a phrase of fencing.


FYI, I always have a copy with me.

Vernacular.

If you're going to criticize someone's language, yours has to be right too.

Plus, it doesn't really mean what you want it to mean.

Anna

[Got_Fenced_In]

Originally Posted by annacattiva

Vernacular.

If you're going to criticize someone's language, yours has to be right too.

Plus, it doesn't really mean what you want it to mean.

Anna

Haha, yes, I'm agreeing with you on this one.



And no, I am aware of the difference between 'judges' and 'refs', but unfortunately, I've had way more than just one club, and I've heard them called both. So I've picked it up, and also call them both.

[TBean]

Have a word with your coach. There is no way you can successfully deal with this directly. You are not his peer and no matter how polite you were in saying something to him, the age gap puts you at a disadvantage and he is likely to see your saying something as being disrepectful - even if you were not.

[Got_Fenced_In]

Originally Posted by TBean

Have a word with your coach. There is no way you can successfully deal with this directly. You are not his peer and no matter how polite you were in saying something to him, the age gap puts you at a disadvantage and he is likely to see your saying something as being disrepectful - even if you were not.

As many times as I've already been told this, I liked hearing it from you most. You sounded the least bossy. And the most right.

[pinkelephant]

Sounds like he deserves a good bit of "disrespect". Respect has to be earned, whatever the age of the parties.

[Got_Fenced_In]

Originally Posted by pinkelephant

Sounds like he deserves a good bit of "disrespect". Respect has to be earned, whatever the age of the parties.

Well. I agree with you there, too. But it would probably make other people think of me as a pretentious little snot, too. And I'm not one. Usually. So. I wouldn't disrespect him like that. Like I said, I would also risk embarrassing him. And I wouldn't want someone to do that to me if I was new(ish) at something, so...