Strip Length for "Local" competitions

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by acaba

I remember fencing in a Mid-west sectionals many years ago where the strips were set up in an upper story (7th or 8th floor?) of an old warehouse. I remember that one of the strips backed up to a wall, and just offset from the strip was a door that opened onto a fire escape with a many story drop. Kinda makes you wonder how strong the reel cord is...

Aaron

......... And how well the reel is taped down...............

[bigdawg2121]

Originally Posted by epeemike81

I assume you're talking correlation and not causation here and that the local club which runs the best tournaments happens to be the one with shorter than regulation strips...

You're not saying that they're better BECAUSE of the short strips, right?

-m

Certainly the best tournaments, IMO, around here are run in a room that has strips that are too short. So yes I'm talking correlation, however, I think it would be silly to say that it's not worth going to these tournaments. Relatively few places provide reasonably strong, consistent A2 saber events. Even fewer if you just look at the section.

[rcmatthews]

It's not the size or width of the strip that matters, but how you use it.

[Hobbes]

Originally Posted by the ancient one

Strip too short?

Just make it into a circle, say 6m OD and 4m ID.



No. I am not serious.

would you be able to fleche past your opponent twice? I'm all for trying that out!

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

What about the old times when the piste length was 18 (and before that, 24m)long, but that the physical piste was only 14 m? Then a fencer who had run off the back line had to restart at before his opponent could run him off the piste for real, and get a point.

Why not have such a rule for all short pistes, so that the real piste length is 14 m?

Personally, I think that the run-off length and especially distance from back line to nearest wall should be strictly enforced, and breaches should result un desanctioning the event.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[DangerMouse]

Originally Posted by PeterGustafsson

and breaches should result in desanctioning the event.

Are you suggesting we fence without breeches? In just our knickers? Or less...

[sir alasdair]

Originally Posted by acaba

I remember fencing in a Mid-west sectionals many years ago where the strips were set up in an upper story (7th or 8th floor?) of an old warehouse. I remember that one of the strips backed up to a wall, and just offset from the strip was a door that opened onto a fire escape with a many story drop. Kinda makes you wonder how strong the reel cord is...

Aaron

I have heard stories of that place from my coach and members of my club and included it as an example in my top ten list - "10 signs you may belong to a bad fencing club". It was "Fencing 2000" in Chicago.

I think that as long as the strip is long and wide enough to allow actual fencing to commence it doesn't matter if it is 12 meters or 14 meters but the runoff should be there. If an attacker can't implement certain attacks (like the fleche) then it is not acceptable. The CAAFC had a strip alongside a wall with a radiator next to it that received errant blade contacts. I witnessed on a few occasions when a counter-attack struck the radiator or wall and timed out the attack so there was no touch. It was not intentional, but the condition affected the play of the bout.

As a comparable situation - look at the variable shapes and sizes of baseball stadiums. There are many that are asymmetrical - in fact all of them are, but some are noticable (Fenway). Both teams have to play on the same field under the same conditions so no advantage is given. Also, in hockey, some of the old stadiums had "small ice" like the old Chicago stadium.

I don't see a problem with some small variations as long as there are no safety issues and it doesn't affect the ability of fencers to play.

Kirk

[oiuyt]

If you don't think variable field/ice dimensions convey advantage to a home team that can select personnel based on the dimensions of the field of play for half of their games then you're sadly mistaken.

-B

[the ancient one]

If you have only fenced on 1 meter wide strips and then compete with fencers who have trained on and learned to exploit a 2 meter wide strip, you are at a disadvantage.

[KD5MDK]

Unless you're on a 1m strip at the time.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by the ancient one

If you have only fenced on 1 meter wide strips and then compete with fencers who have trained on and learned to exploit a 2 meter wide strip, you are at a disadvantage.

As a fencer who has trained for years on one meter strips, and fences on two meter strips on competition, I can assure you that the disadvantage is essentially zero in my experience. The fact is that back and forth motion just isn't used that much in fencing, when it is used it's rarely the whole strip, and no matter where the other fencer goes you can still square yourself off with them.

Do your experiences differ, or were you just offering a hypothesis?

[the ancient one]

It is my observation based on experience.

Sweeping generalization of above follows:
In the US most likely you are fencing other fencers who also live and learn on 1m-1.5m wide strips and who also do not encounter a full width strip more than a few times a year, and in a setting where it is not wise to experiment.

My caveat was that they would be experienced and trained to exploit the full width.

It is also a disadvantage to go down to a narrow strip, but much less so.

Is this hard to accept?

[erik_blank]

Strange. Our club has almost always used the 2 meter strip, simply because we were following 'the rules' as written in the rule book (not having bothered to look at the ops manual). When fencing other people in local competitions (like the CMU Holy Grail) the strips have also been 2 meters wide regulation sized (they have GREAT space at CMU, and the HG is an excellent non-USFA team event).
I have observed many fencers on the regulation strips using the whole width of the strip durring these events, often hugging one side then the other as they try to throw off their opponents or get a different angle for an attack. From this I have to conclude that if the strip was narrower their actions would tend to put them off the side of the strip more often and would limit this lateral travel and thus their game.

[DJ Apostrophe]

Originally Posted by erik_blank

Strange. Our club has almost always used the 2 meter strip, simply because we were following 'the rules' as written in the rule book (not having bothered to look at the ops manual). When fencing other people in local competitions (like the CMU Holy Grail) the strips have also been 2 meters wide regulation sized (they have GREAT space at CMU, and the HG is an excellent non-USFA team event).
I have observed many fencers on the regulation strips using the whole width of the strip durring these events, often hugging one side then the other as they try to throw off their opponents or get a different angle for an attack. From this I have to conclude that if the strip was narrower their actions would tend to put them off the side of the strip more often and would limit this lateral travel and thus their game.

The FIE rulebook says (and always has, at least for as long as I have been fencing) that the strip should be between 1.5 and 2 meters, so even people fencing on (somewhat) narrow strips are still fencing on "regulation" width strips.

The updated version of the ops manual now gives more leeway to local competition organizers.

Just FYI.

-w

[sir alasdair]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

If you don't think variable field/ice dimensions convey advantage to a home team that can select personnel based on the dimensions of the field of play for half of their games then you're sadly mistaken.

-B

I may be mistaken, but im not sad about it...

Given your example, there is no home team in a bout - in regards to the fact that one of the fencers doesn't get to set up the strip to his advantage for the visiting team (fencer). But yes, with regards to the "small ice" scenario - the home team would generally want to field larger, defensive-minded players where a smaller, lighter, faster player would get crushed trying to move.

The real advantage is in the personnel on the field of play. The field of play remains constant throughout the game on any given day. Given that your "team" on the field is just you, than you need to adapt and play within the same strip as your opponent. Advantage is not based on the strip it is based on the fencers and their awareness of their surroundings and positioning.