Camcorder for fencing

[Chafunkta]

I want to get a camcorder that I can get good quality fencing videos with. My main concern is the movement of fencing, and whether some camcorders are good with movement.

I was checking out Amazon.com and found this one, the Panasonic SDR-H18, which has really good ratings. However, none of the ratings say anything about motion on the camcorder.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a good camcorder (preferrably under $500)?

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

Originally Posted by Chafunkta

I want to get a camcorder that I can get good quality fencing videos with. My main concern is the movement of fencing, and whether some camcorders are good with movement.

I was checking out Amazon.com and found this one, the Panasonic SDR-H18, which has really good ratings. However, none of the ratings say anything about motion on the camcorder.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a good camcorder (preferrably under $500)?

If you're serious then you should be looking at a Sony HD camera. That's what I'm buying. Haven't decided which model yet, but they're all in the $1000 range. How long before you buy one? I'll be happy to review the one I buy once I have had a chance to use it...probably looking at about a month.

[dekko]

Consider getting acamera with a hard drive instead of atking tapes or disks. There are 3 sizes so far, 20gig, 30gig and some 50gig. Downloading the file is much quicker than waiting for the tape to run and holds lots more time than any tape or disc.

Good luck.

[KD5MDK]

Don't forget you'll want a monopod. Nothing like having the motion of the person filming the bout to throw off your ability to tell who moved in which direction.

[keropie]

Other things to be aware of:

DVD cameras currently hold the least per 'tape.' Only about half an hour on some. Mini DV tape camcorders would be the tape variety to look at. And yes, the Hard Drive camcorders would hold the most, but you'll have to put it on your PC (space intensive) or burn it to DVD to have an archival type copy. The advantage of the tapes is that you can get new tapes to save for more space.

Also keep track of zoom type (optical zoom vs. digital zoom, optical is better), stabilization (same thing, optical > digital), and lens quality. Sony often uses Carl Zeiss lenses, which are nice, and Panasonic sometimes uses Leica (my personal favorite). You'll also see some 3 CCD cameras that do better color wise, and HD is up to you. It's not really necessary for most ppl right now, and will eat up space a good deal faster.

And if you buy it from a big box retailer (Circuit City or Best Buy) I would look at the service plans they offer. They usually cover some level of accidental damage, and for something you carry around all the time, it's worth looking at. Cases and extra types (if relevant) are worth looking at.

Personally, I like Panasonic and Sony. Panasonic will usually be cheaper. But make sure it has a Leica lens, not a Panasonic Video lens if possible. Same with Sony, the Carl Zeiss >>> Sony Video Lens.

[OROD]

Just make sure you get one that does progressive video capture and not just interlaced.

.

[Heavenguard]

Check the format the video data is encoded in if it's dvd/hd. I bought one without realizing it records as an mpeg, which is NOT a good format for keeping quality.

[battleaxe]

I've used an older Sony Mini DV camera with excellent results. A couple of points to consider: The mini DV tape models are the cheapest but are borderline obsolete. The reviews say that the hard drive models do not have the best picture quality. The recordable mini DVD models are reasonably priced and have good picture quality.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Some of the things to consider:

1. Do you want to create DVDs or edit the video after recording? If so, a tape-based camera is a better bet for most folks, because many of the better DVD/HDD cameras record in the AVCHD format, which is difficult for most editing software systems to handle. Tape is a little more widely accepted, even in basic edit packages.

2. Do you want to archive the video for a while, or is it view it and discard it? Again, tape is a great archive system. If you're a high end computer user with lots of HD space, or don't mind spending a lot of time transfering and storing video onto removable drives, a hard drive camera can work well. Tape on a shelf might still be a better system for you...if you want to go look up a 2007 bout in a few years.

3. High Definition vs Standard Definition. Actually, in the HDV cameras, the MB stream is the same for HDV or SD...25mb/sec, so the storage is about the same, once it's digitized into the computer. If you go the HDV route, you're future proofing the video for a while, and it looks really great connected to an HD TV with component cable.

4. Progressive vs interlaced video. Progressive video is much better if you intend to pull a still picture (freeze frame) off the video. Most folks find progressive video to be a bit weird or jerky looking when played at normal speed. You'll see what the camera is capable of recording when you check the specifications: 24p or 30p is the progressive mode.
A more useful camera ability is either high frame rate (shown as 60i or 120i or more--but unlikely in your price range) or a high shutter speed. Shutter speeds in excess of 1000/sec will dramatically increase the clarity of the fencing action when played back in slow-motion. It's not always such a pleasing effect when played back in real time--think battle scenes in "Gladiator" or "Black Hawk Down".

5. A mid range camera mounted on a nice tripod with a fluid head will make much more palatable video than a shaky, hand-held top of the line HD model.

If you can spend more than your $500 budget, I might suggest you look at the Canon HV-10, or HV-20...and the Sony HDR-HC7.

[sionnach]

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

5. A mid range camera mounted on a nice tripod with a fluid head will make much more palatable video than a shaky, hand-held top of the line HD model.

This will make the single biggest positive difference to your fencing videos. A good tripod is a must.

[Fencing Mom]

Yep. Listen to Capt. Slo-Mo.

[crquack]

I looked this recently. I assumed that the DV tape machines are obsolete. I learned that the picture quality is in fact the best for the tape machines as the image is stored "whole", the other modes compress it in various ways.

The tapes are cheap, hold more than a DVD and you can always copy stuff off them to a DVD.

FWIW, Cannon tested really well.

However, if you want good slo-mo pictures of fencing, high tape and shutter speeds will be necessary and the cost goes up.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Indeed, while the HDD and DVD record mechanisms are quite attractive, in theory: no drop out, slacked tapes, clogged video heads...the truth is the tape recording still provides a superior picture that's easier to edit.

Now, some of the high end flash video cameras coming out...the Sony EX, for instance...record to high capacity cards, in full HD. These look very attractive.

But they're also $8K to start.

In the meantime, Chafunkta, if you want to stay out of the HDV world, also take a look at any of the Panasonic 3CCD camcorders. The 3 imaging devices in the camera provide a great picture, and there are several models in the $600 range.

[KD5MDK]

I've heard good things about JVC HDV cameras. Any comment?

[Capt. Slo-mo]

The JVC Everio-series of affordable HDV camcorders are not generally well regarded by those in the biz.

Now, the larger JVC cameras with the detachable lenses...which start at about $4K and go up, are another matter. They are one of the best at film-style 24p shooting.

However, the JVC cameras top out at a 720 resolution, vs 1080 for most other HD or HDV cameras...and the difference in picture quality is noticeable.

[keropie]

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

In the meantime, Chafunkta, if you want to stay out of the HDV world, also take a look at any of the Panasonic 3CCD camcorders. The 3 imaging devices in the camera provide a great picture, and there are several models in the $600 range.

I'll second this.

[garyhayenga]

In that price range I recommend the Sony DCR-HC96 MiniDV, which you can get for around $500. I've got the HC90 it's predecessor.

I got it because it was supposed to be very good in poor indoor lighting conditions, like fencing tournaments, and have very good picture quality, and I've been very pleased with the results.

The DVD camcorders that I tried out all compress the video significantly with quite a bit of loss of picture quality.

The 3 CCD Panasonic models like the GS300 are supposed to be very good also, particularly in regard to color in low light. But I figured color saturation in a fencing video wasn't that important to me.

gary hayenga