Ulnar nerve entrapment and pistol grips

[Sinestra]

Hey all!

Long story short, I was in a pretty nasty car accident over the summer, from which I walked away with very little serious bodily harm. However, since that point (it's been about two months now) I've had intermittent loss of sensation in the little finger of my left hand, as well as that side of the hand and that same side of my ring finger. I took that first month off from fencing; then about three weeks ago it stopped being intermittent and started being a persistent problem, prompting me to see a neurologist, who informed me that this is basically a traditional case of ulnar nerve entrapment, probably caused by smacking my elbow somehow during the car accident.

There's noticeable weakness in the little finger, which is more difficult to deal with than the numbness, because while my neurologist told me it would be alright to continue fencing as long as my hand remains comfortable while doing so, I can't really wrap that finger around the bottom of my Visconti grip, and it sticks out a bit, becoming quite a bit more prone to being hit. (Which I have to say, despite the general numbness, hurts like hell.)

Now, I'm not banking on anyone necessarily having experienced this same set of circumstances, but what I'm really wondering is if anyone is aware of things that I could be doing to make my finger less prone to getting hit, and if there are any specific grips that might require less use of the last two fingers on the hand. I can still hold the viscontis without problems and fence with them, but if there are other options that would be more comfortable, I'd like to look into them.

Again, I'd appreciate any advice on this. It's been a pretty frustrating experience, so anything would help!

[MHS Fencer]

When I've hurt my fingers I've just taped them together, so that I could continue fencing - that should keep them in more out of the way, at least.

That said, if you have the chance to try out a couple of other grips that might work - I've heard that orthopedic grips were originally invented due to people who were missing fingers from one of the great wars, so maybe some or more suited to your needs.

[nahouw]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Hey all!

Long story short, I was in a pretty nasty car accident over the summer, from which I walked away with very little serious bodily harm. However, since that point (it's been about two months now) I've had intermittent loss of sensation in the little finger of my left hand, as well as that side of the hand and that same side of my ring finger. I took that first month off from fencing; then about three weeks ago it stopped being intermittent and started being a persistent problem, prompting me to see a neurologist, who informed me that this is basically a traditional case of ulnar nerve entrapment, probably caused by smacking my elbow somehow during the car accident.

I had a car accident (being hit at 50 mph while I was at a redlight) and experienced tingling in my fingers. Went to the neurologist, and the MRI discovered the pinched nerve due to the compression and herniation of the discs between C5 and C6, and between C6 and C7 on the other side. These are the vertabraes in which the nerves for your arms travel through. Continued with chiropractic treatment 3X week and massage therapy 2X week for 6 months, lessening to 2X week chiropractic and 1X week massage therapy for another 6 months. Problem resolved.

I don't think that your problem is just holding a grip -- you need to investigate further as to the root cause of the symptons that you are experiencing before you incur further irreversible damage.

[RkfdFencer]

While taping sounds like an intermediate work-around, what did the doctor offer in the way of treatment? Or, is it just a case of letting things sort themselves out? I think nahouw is right in that you want to think about the long term.

[Cookeit]

If you are who I think you are.. aren't you right handed?

[Redblade]

I've had a case of ulnar nerve impingement, although it was in my left, non-weapon hand. Hit me from out of the blue, which is to say I don't know what the heck triggered it -- just PING there goes the sensation in my finger. (Aside: The sensation was so unusual that I took a pen and was able to mark out the specific nerve zone on my hand and along the inside of my ring finger, merely for visual reference.) I had to turn down a lucrative freelance job at the time because the effort to type was maddening.

I went to a couple of doctors, as you did. It took at least seven months for normal sensation to return. And there wasn't a darn thing I could do to speed up the process.

I can't really offer advice, other than to remind you that it will probably heal itself just fine, and for you to try to train your brain into -- this is going to sound weird -- not noticing so much. (shrug) Conscious focus on physical stimulus tends to make the problem seem more severe. You're stuck with this problem for a while; might as well accept it sooner than later.

Oh, and protect your elbow. Change your lifestyle habits if necessary so that you're not resting your arm on anything that could put pressure on it.

[crquack]

Oh, and protect your elbow. Change your lifestyle habits if necessary so that you're not resting your arm on anything that could put pressure on it.

Watch the position you are sleeping in. Sometimes even just flexing the elbow for a prolonged period of time will squeeze the ulnar nerve, particularly if you have muscular arms.

The other thing is to watch hyper-extension: If you tend to do it forcibly during a hit, desist. I screwed up my ulnar nerve on the right doing that with karate punches. It recovered completely, BTW.

[KD5MDK]

Switch to 120mm bell guards, if you haven't already.

[Montoya]

I had this in my non-weapon arm, probably from an old injury and from years of leaning on my elbow and from sleeping with my left arm curled up.

I second crquack's advice - watch your sleeping position. I trained myself to sleep with my arm straight by taking my young niece's kneepad for rollerblading and putting it on the INSIDE of my elbow (not over the elbow itself). This kept me from bending my arm in my sleep. And don't lean on your elbow . .

Mine got better in about six weeks. I had noticeable weakness in the hand at the outset.

[TBean]

The ulnar nerve is a bear because you basically have to wait for the never to settle down. Did he recommend anything in the way of treatment. There are some nerve glides that can help and some other PT but it is limited. I can only echo watch your sleeping - keeping your elbows bent all night can aggrivate the condition terribly.

If it really becomes an issue, fence off-handed - its not so bad. I'm currently becoming left-handed because of elbow probelms.

[Redblade]

I also adapted by keeping my arm unbent while I slept; the knee pad noted above works well.

Check your office chair arm rests, too, to make sure you're not putting pressure directly on the cleavage point under your elbow (cubital tunnel). Ditto while driving your car or sitting elsewhere.

[Sinestra]

First off, thanks to everyone for the replies.

I did speak with a neurologist, as I said, I'm scheduled to take an EMG test (because apparently you have to book these things months in advance) in mid-November; I'm currently taking a variety of anti-inflammatory drugs that were recommended to me by the doctors to try and see if the nerve wouldn't improve on its own.
I've been informed that, depending on the results of this use of the anti-inflammatory meds and what the EMG reveals, I may need to end up having surgery, but that wouldn't happen until December (this isn't severely impairing normal functions, just being really uncomfortable, for the most part, so my parents are insisting on me finishing up the semester first.) So I'm not just not-treating this; I've spoken with a number of doctors, but there's nothing that any of them will do for me before I get an EMG done, which isn't even possible until almost Thanksgiving, so really, until then I want to figure out what I can do to minimise the impact this is having on my life.
I've also been doing minor PT exercises, and keeping my elbow braced unbent as I sleep--the curious thing about this is that, when it worsens, there doesn't seem to be a consistent cause--it could happen while I'm taking a shower just as easily as if I were typing at my keyboard. I haven't driven at all since the accident, so I'm pretty sure that it's nothing I've been doing in the car that's been affecting it

I appreciate the advice, I'll probably try the taping thing, just so that finger will be less exposed.

Switch to 120mm bell guards, if you haven't already.

What size is a standard bellguard? And where can I get 120mm ones, if they would really help?

Also...

If you are who I think you are.. aren't you right handed?

Who do you think I am? I'm pretty sure I'm not them, being actually left-handed and all

Thanks again, all, I really appreciate any help on this! I'm getting used to the numbness, but it's still a bit unsettling, heh.

[SJCFU#2]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

What size is a standard bellguard? And where can I get 120mm ones, if they would really help?

The regulation diameter for a foil bell guard is between 95 and 120 mm (m.9). Most tend to be either 100 or 110 mm.

Good 120mm bell guards can be hard to find (many tend to be a bit flimsy and are easily bent). I've heard that Negrini makes a decent one so you may want to try Swordmasters and ask about their FGA12 foil guard (click here).

[TBean]

With the screen name Sinestra why would anyone think you are right-handed?

Good luck with it, the ulnar nerve is really hard to to treat.