what do u guys think of this mask?

**Psi Shadowdark** · 08-10-2002 10:00 PM

<a href="http://www.leonpaul.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_F_I_E__Range_1600N__Bib__C_E_N__L evel_2__79.html" target="_blank">http://www.leonpaul.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_F_I_E__Range_1600N__Bib__C_E_N__L evel_2__79.html</a>

Mask vision 2000 F.I.E.transparent visor 1600 newton bib

its got a clear part to see, anyone with any experiance with this?

**Zelda** · 08-11-2002 02:00 AM

They are odd to wear and kind of disconcerting initially to fence in. I dont own one, but borrowed a friends for a bout to see what it was like.

**JEC** · 08-11-2002 07:20 AM

Don't sit on top or you would shatter the visor.

**Gav** · 08-11-2002 12:29 PM

I don't like them. They are actually heavier than a regular mask. I know people who use them and they say the increased vision is worth it, however I doubt that. In addition you have to replace the visor every once in a while. I don't personally see the point.

**veeco** · 08-11-2002 08:47 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Gav:
I don't like them. They are actually heavier than a regular mask. I know people who use them and they say the increased vision is worth it, however I doubt that. In addition you have to replace the visor every once in a while. I don't personally see the point.<hr /></blockquote>Now that would be a problem. Not being able to see the point would be detrimental to your fencing wouldn't it?

**Gav** · 08-11-2002 09:00 PM

Veeco: I don't spend my fencing bouts watching my point. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

The vision 200 is all about visibility so I suppose the point would err.. be his... err point.

Don't you just hate English?

**Pa55w0rd** · 08-12-2002 03:41 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Gav:
Veeco: I don't spend my fencing bouts watching my point. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

The vision 200 is all about visibility so I suppose the point would err.. be his... err point.

Don't you just hate English?<hr /></blockquote>yes but whats your point ?

**Inquartata** · 08-12-2002 07:02 PM

Marginally better than the "welder's mask" ones I've seen---but not much better.

How those can "fly" in sabre anyway I do not understand.

**oiuyt** · 08-13-2002 04:05 PM

the reason they're okay for sabre is that the FIE did testing and in whatever test sample they used did not find a single touch that didn't register (every cut that hit the plastic bit also hit some metal as well). LP uses smaller target area as a selling point but the reason the FIE is cool with it is that the smaller target area doesn't result in fewer touches.

Now obviously it could theoretically, but in their testing it didn't.

-B

**Inquartata** · 08-13-2002 07:12 PM

By this logic there is no reason to test masks for resistance at all---I have an old sabre mask which is battered and frayed and has "bald spots" on the lame. I have never had a hit fail to go off on it, in all the years I used it first in competition and then in practice. Yet somehow I think I would not be permitted to use it in a tournament.

But then, who expects logical consistency from the FIE?

Anyway, what made me wonder was the memory of a touch I got in Sandy, Utah last year---a stop thrust to the center of the mask at a dead retreat. I doubt it would have gone off had there been plexiglas there.

**epeefencer74** · 08-13-2002 08:04 PM

I have been using the Vison 2000 for a few months now and I think it's great. True you have to replace the visor once in a while, but note that there are actually two layers of plastic. A thin scratch resistent outer layer and a thicker puncture resistent inner layer. You are suppose to replace the outer layer only when you feel the damage to it hinders your fencing or if it has been punctured. I have yet to replace either layers. Also the design of the mask gives slightly more space in the interior, this allows for me to have my glasses on while fencing. I didn't use to have them on when I was using my old mask as I simply couldn't get them to stay on my face when I put the mask on. With the vison 2000 it's a lot easier. BTW, the power of my glasses isn't that high that I can't do without it; something like 50 deg both sides. I have to say that now that I can fence with my glasses on I'm a lot more accurate with my hand hits.

**veeco** · 08-14-2002 03:05 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Inquartata:
By this logic there is no reason to test masks for resistance at all---I have an old sabre mask which is battered and frayed and has "bald spots" on the lame. I have never had a hit fail to go off on it, in all the years I used it first in competition and then in practice. Yet somehow I think I would not be permitted to use it in a tournament.

But then, who expects logical consistency from the FIE?

Anyway, what made me wonder was the memory of a touch I got in Sandy, Utah last year---a stop thrust to the center of the mask at a dead retreat. I doubt it would have gone off had there been plexiglas there.<hr /></blockquote>Well, the lame is a different area than the area where the lexan is on the Vision mask.

While I can understand that the lexan area cannot be hit by a cut without hitting some metal as well, I am sure that you can think of many cuts that can hit the lame of your mask, and just the lame.

**Inquartata** · 08-14-2002 07:54 PM

It can however be hit by a point in line or a stop thrust. We do still occasionally use the point in sabre.

**veeco** · 08-14-2002 10:04 PM

Yeah, but how many point in line or stop thrusts go to the mask???

I know that you can use the point. That's pretty much all I use when I fence sabre. Can't do anything else, and it annoys a lot of people at the club. ;-)

**Inquartata** · 08-15-2002 06:23 PM

One is all it takes.

I once fenced an A foilist who had never picked up a sabre before. All he did was point in line. He slaughtered me. It was most annoying.

"But I'm much better now!"

**Gav** · 08-15-2002 06:33 PM

I was fencing Sabre the other week (gasp!). It was funny, the Sabreur I was up against couldn't handle a straight lunge or a patented left hander stop hit to back of arm. He was annoyed - he even gave me a bruised knuckle (payback for being an irritating left handed epeeist apparently).

**veeco** · 08-15-2002 09:22 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Gav:
I was fencing Sabre the other week (gasp!). It was funny, the Sabreur I was up against couldn't handle a straight lunge or a patented left hander stop hit to back of arm. He was annoyed - he even gave me a bruised knuckle (payback for being an irritating left handed epeeist apparently).<hr /></blockquote>I see that the language of the sabre fencer is universal <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

**veeco** · 08-15-2002 09:23 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Inquartata:
One is all it takes.

I once fenced an A foilist who had never picked up a sabre before. All he did was point in line. He slaughtered me. It was most annoying.

"But I'm much better now!"

<hr /></blockquote>And he has hitting point in line in right in your face? For an A foilist that's kind of unusual. Generally the mask in foil only becomes target area after extensive sweating... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

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