Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Purple Fencer · 03-23-2002, 05:35 PM

I'm currently looking at a customer's epee. it was one I sold him about two months ago and has worked well.

The other day, he says he was sparring and a hit on his guard registered valid. It had not done so earlier in the bout. He switched weapons, cords and reels and isolated it to a problem in the weapon.

When I hook it to my basic test box and depress the tip, I get one light only; no grounding.

I'm starting to look at it right now. Any ideas where the problem might be? The guard's beat up, but I don't see any oxidation that would insulate the ground.

damianip · 03-23-2002, 06:19 PM

Sam,

Two things I would look at:

Touch on the socket "mast" and make sure that it is grounding. (continuity with the bell and weapon is good).

Make sure that the "C" line socket is tight (screw or hex) and contacting the socket mast (what should I be calling this piece anyway?). I've had a couple of occasions where it was a little loose and would give intermittent bell touches. The two times I've seen this was with Prieur sockets. I'd look for corrosion in that area too.

A rub down with Scotch Brite might help the bell.

Paolo

damianip · 03-23-2002, 06:22 PM

Sam,

Two things I would look at:

Touch on the socket "mast" and make sure that it is grounding. (continuity with the bell and weapon is good).

Make sure that the "C" line socket is tight (screw or hex) and contacting the socket mast (what should I be calling this piece anyway?). I've had a couple of occasions where it was a little loose and would give intermittent bell touches. The two times I've seen this was with Prieur sockets. I'd look for corrosion in that area too.

A rub down with Scotch Brite might help the bell.

Also, if I'm understanding correctly, you'll only get two lights on the test box if it's shorting to ground on the touch. If you have a Favero test box, touch the case of the unit to the bell and make sure you get a red LED whenever you do. If not you have no or intermittent ground.

Paolo

damianip · 03-23-2002, 06:25 PM

[quote]Originally posted by damianip:
<strong>Sam,

Two things I would look at:

Touch on the socket "mast" and make sure that it is grounding. (continuity with the bell and weapon is good).

Make sure that the "C" line socket is tight (screw or hex) and contacting the socket mast (what should I be calling this piece anyway?). I've had a couple of occasions where it was a little loose and would give intermittent bell touches. The two times I've seen this was with Prieur sockets. I'd look for corrosion in that area too.

A rub down with Scotch Brite might help the bell.

Also, if I'm understanding correctly, you'll only get two lights on the test box if it's shorting to ground on the touch. If you have a Favero test box, touch the case of the unit to the bell and make sure you get a red LED whenever you do. If not you have no or intermittent ground.

Paolo</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think this means it's time to shut off the computer and go to bed.

neevel · 03-23-2002, 06:34 PM

What the second light coming on indicates is a B-C short, which would mean the weapon being unable to register a touch (depending on what scoring machine is being used). That's not the problem here-- what causes touches on the weapon to register is a break in the connection to the C line (which would mean that the red light wouldn't come on anyway).

Some epee sockets have a little metal tab that C-line plug tightens down against to create the connection. If the plug has come untightened or the tab has bent over a bit so that it's not touching the plug, there will be no connection between the body cord C-line and the weapon. Bend the tab back into place and tighten down the C plug. Then take an ohmmeter, plug one lead into the C-line of the weapon, and use the other lead to check conductivity on the guard and blade. In particular, check the reinforcing disc. On many guards the disc is attached both by rivets and by an adhesive. The rivets provide the electrical connection to the rest of the guard-- if they've been cracked or broken the disc will not be grounded, since the adhesive that's still holding it on is an insulator.

-Dave

sallearmourer · 03-24-2002, 04:45 AM

The weapon itself may check out fine too. But it could be a combination of weapon, bodycord, reel and floor cord. The whole system works together. Check out the c=lead as everyone suggestion.

Tim

Purple Fencer · 03-24-2002, 03:22 PM

Thanks, guys! Turned out the hex nut on the "C" line socket was waaaayyy loose...damn near fell off! We tightened it, and no problems!

Yet another thing to pass on in my (very) basic armory clinic I'm giving in Palm Springs next month.

D'Artagnan1673 · 03-26-2002, 11:37 AM

ah,

Wouldn'it it be nice if we all just fenced dry? No more problems such as these!

Just Joking, please don't start hissing at me. <img src="graemlins/jester.gif" border="0" alt="[Jester]" />

damianip · 03-26-2002, 12:28 PM

[quote]Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673:
<strong>ah,

Wouldn'it it be nice if we all just fenced dry? No more problems such as these!

Just Joking, please don't start hissing at me. <img src="graemlins/jester.gif" border="0" alt="[Jester]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Sorry, you shouldn't have said anything...

No, I can't think of many experiences worse than competitive dry fencing. There are plenty of times in épée where I am surprised that my touch was sufficient or that I was sufficiently touched.

Actually, the only thing worse then fencing dry is directing dry fencing. Talk about a no-win situation.

The old days were not always better.

Paolo

D'Artagnan1673 · 03-26-2002, 12:41 PM

actually, for me, electric fencing hasn't changed my style at all.

I can handle fencing dry in foil where you at least have right of way to give some idea as to whoose point it is. But I can imagine it would be close to impossible to fence competitevly with dry Epee. My only complaint, and I nearly said this on the last post, is that I understand how to fix my electrical problems about as well as I could fix something on a car. I.E. If it is broke, it sits there until I buy a new one! Therefore, when we start talking about hex nuts and corrosian, I go blank.

D'Artagnan1673 · 03-26-2002, 12:44 PM

[quote]Actually, the only thing worse then fencing dry is directing dry fencing. Talk about a no-win situation.

<hr></blockquote>

LOL!!! It is next to impossible unless you have very honest fencers, or 2 line judges on either side. Even with honest fencers, you then must factor in the fact that they honestly may not feel a touch. As far as I understand, when that happened, since it wasn't enough of a touch to be felt, it wasn't counted as one.