resolving an issue with STM

[finnfence]

Ok, I'm getting a little grumpy here, and would like the benefit of anyone else's advice on how to get this cleared up.

Does anyone else have any experience dealing directly with STM in the Ukraine? We ordered around $6,000 of blades plus a little bit of other gear, and we are having trouble resolving an issue of missing gear/wrong sizes with them. They sent one saber lame in the wrong size and two blades were missing. There were also some other interesting substitutions of ordered gear, but since they invariably upgraded (like substituting a blue blade for a plain one) we aren't complaining.

STM tells us that it's too expensive for them to exchange the lame, and that the only option is to come in person to an international competition where they have a stand and exchange it. Well, fine, except that nobody local is going to any such competitions. Is this a normal business practice? Anyone have any ideas on how to get resolution? Anyone carry STM lames and willing to exchange? We have a size 52, we need a size 106 saber lame.

Regarding the two missing blades, they claim it can't be their mistake because they doublecheck the goods against the customs dox before sealing the box as it leaves their warehouse. So they tell us to take it up with the transport company, which of course has in the fine print that you have to complain within 14 days, and it is longer than that since STM first started to investigate the problem. They have not responded to questions about insurance. I'm not saying they're wrong that the blades disappeared in transit, but I wonder why they think it's our problem instead of theirs. I would think that they should send us the two blades, and deal with reimbursement themselves. We ordered the blades, and we want them, not the equivalent in cash. (I also don't think it makes sense to argue they couldn't have forgotten them, given that their quality check failed to note the wrong size lame or the other substitutions.) So, is this approach also normal business practice? I've never had anything like this happen when ordering from US or German vendors. Ideas on what to do?

Just in case anyone is interested, the whole ordering process was very lengthy and weird. The lengthiness was partly my fault, since I do have a job as well as trying to go back and forth with the order, but the weirdness, well...First there were problems with wrong part codes in the catalog, then there were problems with wrong prices on the order, there were things that they didn't have in stock (minor, but some), then it was impossible to talk to the sales manager by phone, because the phone number went to some central conglomerate headquarters where you have to talk Russian to the secretary or be hung up on, and you have to call the head of STM on his cell phone since the sales managers don't actually work in the building apparently...then there was the weirdness of having to wire the payment in advance to someone's private bank account ("for tax reasons"...don't ask), then there were a couple of problems with "export customs paperwork", whatever that is, that caused delays, then the whole company went on holiday and that further delayed things...when the shipment came, all the labels were in Russian and none of the labels had the product codes on them. It took me literally 10 hours to figure out what was supposed to be what, especially given the equipment substitutions, and sort all the different clubs' stuff into appropriate piles. I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't had Russian in high school. Then when we tried to use the blades, the wires popped out on every single blade when it was used the first time. It's been a very interesting experience.

The one thing I can say is that the quality of the blades themselves is nice - very nice. And the price was right, if you don't count the missing gear and the per hour price for all the work involved. I'm guessing I've put a good 30-40 hours into it so far.

[Joe biebel]

Well gosh, I hope you saved a boatload of money.

[finnfence]

Originally Posted by Joe biebel

Well gosh, I hope you saved a boatload of money.

Yes, that and quality of blades were our main considerations.

[KD5MDK]

I'm reading this as about 240 blades. A 1% shrinkage rate, if you were a business, would probably be perfectly acceptable.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I'm reading this as about 240 blades. A 1% shrinkage rate, if you were a business, would probably be perfectly acceptable.

Yeah...but as the end buyer, you want what you pay for...especially if it involves $6K!

[finnfence]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I'm reading this as about 240 blades. A 1% shrinkage rate, if you were a business, would probably be perfectly acceptable.

We are not a business, we are a bunch of not for profit clubs, and most of us don't have access to good blades at reasonable prices. I suspect that what is going to happen is that I personally am going to end up making up the cost of STM's mistakes to the clubs, although I may just let the clubs take the hit, in order to ensure that this is the last time that we send an order to STM. I don't like doing business with people who first screw up and then won't make it right.

[fatfencer]

???

240 into 6k is like $35 bux or something. Jesus that's cheap.

STM... russian......I think you should have done this order with Triplette or some other major house. I think they would have done better by you.

You could have called Blaise Freres. For that quantity I'm sure they would have given you a great deal.

FF

[KD5MDK]

I cannot imagine they are FIE blades.

I really doubt shipping from the US to Finland is going to be anywhere near as cheap as shipping from Ukraine to Finland. On the scale of fencing vendors, Triplette is small potatos.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I cannot imagine they are FIE blades.

They probably are, actually....we're most likely talking wholesale prices, not retail.

[finnfence]

It was a mix of FIE and non-FIE blades, and yes, we were talking wholesale prices, the so-called "medium order", which had a medium-sized discount. STM increased their prices in August, I think, but we paid, for example, Euro 47.50 for a wired FIE maraging blade, or Euro 17,40 for a wired non-FIE blade. All wired blades came with allstar tips, but the wires were STM and the insulation on those wires was not as good as on allstar ones. Not enough glue was used, either, so the wires have to be re-glued before first use, otherwise they pop out the minute you use them. I think bare blades are probably a better deal - Euro 39 for the maraging, Euro 9 for the non-FIE. To convert to US dollars, add 40%.

[fatfencer]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I cannot imagine they are FIE blades.

I really doubt shipping from the US to Finland is going to be anywhere near as cheap as shipping from Ukraine to Finland. On the scale of fencing vendors, Triplette is small potatos.

Just so you know, at the last few Summer Nationals I've been to Triplette has had at least 3 times more BF FIE blades than any other vendor that I saw.

In Atlanta they had some 300-500 BF blues alone. They dug them all out for me which was great service BTW...most vendors would be like "It's too much work..."

I know people bag on Triplette here but by and large I've had nothing but a great experience with them. Great prices, great equipment. Unfortunately, they will not be attending Summer Nationals this year in San Jose. Too far.

Incidentally, I have to give kudos to LP USA. Yes that's right, LP USA. They had one of the best booths at the Tucson NAC with a reasonable amount of blades to choose from. FINALLY!!!

I never realized how light and also how different seeming the G-Pro blades could be. I went thru them all and NONE of them were the heavy rebar I was expecting. They were light and flicky. There were a couple of heavy ones but not so much so that I WOULDN'T use them. There was a fair amount of variety between the G-Pros' that I didn't expect. If I'd have had more time at the NAC I probably would have bought one. The booth was a very professional well done booth. Very clean and the displays were nice too. I was a bit floored.

Believe it or not, unmitigated praise from FF.

FF

PS: Finn, you are correct. STM is clearly in the wrong here and should not be rewarded with your future biz. They SHOULD make it right...and there's no such thing as 'shrinkage rates' in most sectors... if a distributor doesn't get all the wholesaler should have packed then they just get credited back on their next shipment. In your case you aren't even a retailer. You are a private party who made a large order. They should recognize that and put the money back on a credit card or something.

[KD5MDK]

You'll notice they paid by bank draft to a private account for "tax reasons" (read "not paying them").

[Alex_Paul]

Originally Posted by fatfencer

Incidentally, I have to give kudos to LP USA. Yes that's right, LP USA. They had one of the best booths at the Tucson NAC with a reasonable amount of blades to choose from. FINALLY!!!

I never realized how light and also how different seeming the G-Pro blades could be. I went thru them all and NONE of them were the heavy rebar I was expecting. They were light and flicky. There were a couple of heavy ones but not so much so that I WOULDN'T use them. There was a fair amount of variety between the G-Pros' that I didn't expect. If I'd have had more time at the NAC I probably would have bought one. The booth was a very professional well done booth. Very clean and the displays were nice too. I was a bit floored.

Believe it or not, unmitigated praise from FF.

FF

Alex basks in the glory of praise!!

We have Bill Murphy to thank for that, he is now attending all of the Nationals.

[KD5MDK]

While injured to boot!

[GypsyScot]

Don't get me started on StM, I just got a shipment I ordered in August last week. Yes they are probably the most difficult dealer to deal with, especially after dealing with Leon Paul who run a top notch business as do most other vendors. Usually if you have a issue just drop Serge an email if you don't have it PM, who was your "sales manager"?

[finnfence]

Originally Posted by GypsyScot

Usually if you have a issue just drop Serge an email if you don't have it PM, who was your "sales manager"?

Sergey Sherenkov was our sales manager. I am sort of waffling between calling up the head guy on his cell phone again to complain, and just letting it go and never ordering from them again.

[wahrman]

Complain!

When dealing with a messed order becomes more work than getting it correct the first time, they will start getting it right the first time.

Originally Posted by finnfence

Sergey Sherenkov was our sales manager. I am sort of waffling between calling up the head guy on his cell phone again to complain, and just letting it go and never ordering from them again.

[finnfence]

Um...we are talking about Ukraine here. I'm not sure that the logic of saving time, energy and hassle by doing a thing right the first time occurs. But ok, I'll give it a shot. Obnoxious Ami Expats of the World, unite!

[wahrman]

I do realise that in some areas customer service is um...lacking. That's just the way it is. Being loud and annoying about it serves no purpose. Also, I'm
loath to complain about anything but when you've got the handy number of
an important person in the company, your effort and risk are low.

Originally Posted by finnfence

Um...we are talking about Ukraine here. I'm not sure that the logic of saving time, energy and hassle by doing a thing right the first time occurs. But ok, I'll give it a shot. Obnoxious Ami Expats of the World, unite!

[wahrman]

Oh yeah, just to add to the warm fuzzy feeling, I'll add another voice to the
Leon Paul backers. Both the US and UK office have been very very good to
me and go out of their way to make things right without even being asked to
do so.