Best Foilist

[skit]

Sergei Golubitsky or Petter Joppich? Both are three times World Champion!

[erooMynohtnA]

Alexandr Romankov

[KD5MDK]

Aldo Nadi?

[skit]

Yer,they're GREAT! But it's also a pity that we're not able to see much of their fencing (only the 1989 World Championship Final DVD in the case of Alexandr Romankov).

[erooMynohtnA]

More seriously, I think it's hard to compare Joppich and Golubitsky.

Golubitsky was a consecutive three-time champion. You could say that the consecutive nature of his championships reveals how dominant he was (I wouldn't) at his best.

Also, Golubitsky fenced exclusively under the old timings, to which fencers were accustomed. He just showed a higher level of excellence than other fencers who had risen to the top also playing the same game.

Joppich, on the other hand, has two of his championships post-timings-change. Many top fencers still continue to struggle with adjusting their game, and Joppich may be taking advantage of that, or he may be more adaptable and that shows even more potential.

I think more people would answer Golubitsky for three reasons: Golubitsky speaks English, so he's more accessible, has a very charismatic personality, and most people have trouble with inflated perceptions of past champions.

Muhammad Ali was not the greatest of all time, but he said it enough that people started to agree. I think that's the reason Aldo Nadi, Sergei Golubitsky, or Nick Evangelista (thrown in to illustrate how someone terrible can be seen as an expert, not comparing with Golubitsky) are perhaps more well known than their contemporaries. They're self promoters, not that there's anything wrong with that.

[skit]

But remember that Joppich is fencing with his right hand. He may, in one way or another, give extra hope to those "poor" right-handed fencers! Although, to be frank, I am also a right-hander....

[erooMynohtnA]

Originally Posted by skit

But remember that Joppich is fencing with his right hand. He may, in one way or another, give extra hope to those "poor" right-handed fencers! Although, to be frank, I am also a right-hander....

I'm going to say that handedness is unimportant at that level.

[whtouche]

I think the distinction is difficult to make for the simple reason that we're comparing golubitsky's entire body of work to the ongoing career of joppich. It's like saying who's the greatest golfer ever, tiger or jack, when tiger is still in the middle of his prime. But in contrast to the golf analogy, joppich has already matched golubitsky's world championship output, and he's Not Done Yet. Hell, he was born in 1982! He's only 25!

I don't pretend to follow foil by any stretch, but joppich is 25, just won his third world championship, and is still well in the middle of his prime. If he keeps this up he could make this a really short debate pretty soon.

Of course there are other things to take into account besides world championships won, such as world rank, world cup victories, olympics performance, etc.

I guess if I had to pick between the two, I would say Podzniakov, by far

[whtouche]

Originally Posted by erooMynohtnA

I'm going to say that handedness is unimportant at that level.

That depends on how you measure importance, but I remember an interesting statistic about how roughly 50% of top level fencers are left handed, in spite of the fact that lefty's make up only 10-ish percent of the general population.

[Grasshopper]

You got it all wrong. Fencers make good left-handers, that is all.

[skit]

Fencing DID make good left-hander! According to my observation and population statistcs, left-handed fencers are just as rare to find as left-handed coach. In other words, most left-handed fencers start fencing or learn fencing by taking lesson from a right-hander. And as we all know, in a Left against Right situation, the valid target is very much confined (as compared with Right against Right) which means a lefty has to make extra efforts to drill his/her point control, accuracy etc FROM THE VERY VERY BEGINNING! If they can come through, they will earn extra bonus.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by erooMynohtnA

Joppich, on the other hand, has two of his championships post-timings-change. Many top fencers still continue to struggle with adjusting their game, and Joppich may be taking advantage of that, or he may be more adaptable and that shows even more potential.

Joppich struggled in the beginning of the 2005 season with the timings change. He has obviously adapted now, but some of his fencing right after the changes looked horrid.

[pigeonmeister]

I wonder how Golubitski would have fared with the new timings- I suspect fairly well as he had excellent point control, distance and tactical acumen. I havn't seen enough of the old generation of fencers, but Joppich has won 3 world championships in the last 4 years on both timings. He will win more as well.. I stil prefer watching the old Golubitsky fights. I also like watching Sanzo, Ota or Kleibrink fence.

[KD5MDK]

I vote Craig Harkins for best foilist. He may not win World Championships, but he's contributed a lot more to the fencing community.

[ViewtifulMisho]

Valentina Vezzali

[epeelion]

Seconded. Vezzali has:

-2 gold and one silver Olympic Medals
-2 gold team Olympic medals
-5 gold, 2 silver, 2 bronze individual medals from World Championships
-5 gold and one silver team medals from World championships
-3 gold, 1 silver, one bronze individual European Championship medals
-2 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze team European Championship medals
-9 world cup titles
-52 World cup wins
-11 years at top of world ranking

Most dominant foilist ever.

Romankov was close, with 5 gold medals in team and individual world championships, a bronze and silver in individual Olympics ( I think) and a gold and bronze inm team at the Olympics. Joppich and Golubitsky are/was dominant, but no where near this level.

[veeco]

I would have to say Smirnov, or if I must choose a Frenchman, d'Oriola. Fenced and won both when foil was non-electric, and when it was electric.

Smirnov was IMO a better fencer than Romankov, but never got the chance to prove it.

[FoilyDeath]

Originally Posted by skit

Fencing DID make good left-hander! According to my observation and population statistcs, left-handed fencers are just as rare to find as left-handed coach. In other words, most left-handed fencers start fencing or learn fencing by taking lesson from a right-hander. And as we all know, in a Left against Right situation, the valid target is very much confined (as compared with Right against Right) which means a lefty has to make extra efforts to drill his/her point control, accuracy etc FROM THE VERY VERY BEGINNING! If they can come through, they will earn extra bonus.

A whole lot of research was done about this in France...Apparently left handers are naturally advantaged cos of the nerve configurations. Personally, I think its a load of crap, but its hard to ignore that 3/4 finalists in MF were left handers

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Dan Kellner.

[Cookeit]

I looooove watching Kleibrink.