Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

samster · 10-10-2007, 09:43 PM

Is tip tape necessary? I've seen epees without it. But all foils with it. Can you go nude without significant consequences?

erooMynohtnA · 10-10-2007, 09:52 PM

Well, your weapon will be illegal and you won't be allowed to use it. Other than that, you'll probably lose touches due to grounding too.

peet · 10-10-2007, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samster

Is tip tape necessary? I've seen epees without it. But all foils with it. Can you go nude without significant consequences?

The tip tape is very neccessary for foil, and must not be on an epee.

In foil, the circuit through the weapon is normally closed, i.e. when the button is not pressed (you're not hitting anything), the current flows up through the wire, into the tip, and back through the blade.

When you press the tip, the circuit is broken, so current no longer flows.

So, the reason for the tape: if you hit your opponent's lame, and the lame touches both the front of the tip, and the barrel or blade of your weapon, the lame will close the circuit, even though the tip is depressed.

Result: No light at all (white or colored). Not good. Make sure you have tape completely covering the last 15 cm of your blade.

Oh, and it's also a rule.

-p

samster · 10-10-2007, 10:22 PM

Ah. Thank you both. I understand.

-Sam

KD5MDK · 10-10-2007, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Can you go nude without significant consequences?

No. In addition to the {strange, appreciative, shocked} looks you'll get, you will be carded for failing to report to strip with:

Pants covering the legs(Group 1 penalty)
Jacket covering the torse (Group 1 penalty)
Plastron (Group 1 penalty)
Glove (Group 1 penalty)
Shoes (Group 1 penalty) I don't think socks would be Required if you had pants that went all the way down to your shoes, but not an argument if you're nude.
Mask with inspection mark (Group 2 penalty, assessed last)

So the pool bout would be over 5-0. If I gave a card for missing the inspection marks on your lame, manchette and body cord, we'd be at the 1 minute break in a Sabre DE.

samster · 10-10-2007, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

No. In addition to the {strange, appreciative, shocked} looks you'll get, you will be carded for failing to report to strip with:

Pants covering the legs(Group 1 penalty)
Jacket covering the torse (Group 1 penalty)
Plastron (Group 1 penalty)
Glove (Group 1 penalty)
Shoes (Group 1 penalty) I don't think socks would be Required if you had pants that went all the way down to your shoes, but not an argument if you're nude.
Mask with inspection mark (Group 2 penalty, assessed last)

So the pool bout would be over 5-0. If I gave a card for missing the inspection marks on your lame, manchette and body cord, we'd be at the 1 minute break in a Sabre DE.

What's a DE?

samster · 10-10-2007, 11:33 PM

More to the point... just what exactly is "tip tape"? The bloody stuff is frickin' expensive. Can you just use duct or electrical tape? The latter seems flimsy, and duct tape adhesive is nasty to get off. Are there cheaper alternatives?

thx
-sam

erooMynohtnA · 10-10-2007, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samster

What's a DE?

DE is shorthand for a Direct Elimination bout, usually three periods of three minutes and to 15 touches.

Saber goes too fast, so they just take a minute break at 8 touches, instead of waiting for time.

pokey · 10-10-2007, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

No. In addition to the {strange, appreciative, shocked} looks you'll get, you will be carded for failing to report to strip with:
<snipped 8 points worth of penalties>

Ah, but do you still get to fence?

What about the Group 1 for undressing on the strip/disorderly fencing? Or better yet, the Group 3 Red for fencer disturbing order on the strip?

HDG · 10-10-2007, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samster

More to the point... just what exactly is "tip tape"? The bloody stuff is frickin' expensive. Can you just use duct or electrical tape? The latter seems flimsy, and duct tape adhesive is nasty to get off. Are there cheaper alternatives?

thx
-sam

Use 1" or 3/4" gaffers tape.

KD5MDK · 10-11-2007, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokey

Ah, but do you still get to fence?

What about the Group 1 for undressing on the strip/disorderly fencing? Or better yet, the Group 3 Red for fencer disturbing order on the strip?

Not until the faulty/absent equipment is replaced.

I wouldn't call it undressing on the strip, since that would logically require them to be dressed at the start. It certainly could be called disturbing order on the strip, but I think an immediate black card would be the appropriate reaction.

Purple Fencer · 10-11-2007, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samster

More to the point... just what exactly is "tip tape"? The bloody stuff is frickin' expensive. Can you just use duct or electrical tape? The latter seems flimsy, and duct tape adhesive is nasty to get off. Are there cheaper alternatives?

thx
-sam

As others have said...gaff tape...you can get it at almost any photography supply house....or from someone like me!

Do NOT use a brand called "Tiger Tape" HORRID residue that gets into the tip, screws, and everywhere else you DON'T want the stuff to go!

CvilleFencer · 10-11-2007, 02:30 AM

Another vote for gaffers tape. And it comes in about a bazillion colors. Also, the tennis racket tapes are pretty good and better than some of the cheaper gaffers tape. A lot of vendors sell it as "fencing" tape, but the difference between "fencing" tape and gaffers or racket tape is the same difference between an iced cappuccino and a cup of cold coffee. Which is to say about 3 bucks...

Purple Fencer · 10-11-2007, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CvilleFencer

Another vote for gaffers tape. And it comes in about a bazillion colors. Also, the tennis racket tapes are pretty good and better than some of the cheaper gaffers tape. A lot of vendors sell it as "fencing" tape, but the difference between "fencing" tape and gaffers or racket tape is the same difference between an iced cappuccino and a cup of cold coffee. Which is to say about 3 bucks...

Also, tennis/raquetball tape is designed to stuck tight....gaff tape is designed to come off more easily...better from THIS armorer's pov.

ThatReallyHurt · 10-11-2007, 04:30 AM

I've been using some heavy bookbinding tape, it wears a lot better than any of the other tapes I've used (although I've never used gaff tape or Tiger Tape). If you slice it with a sharp knife, you can peel the whole thing off in one nice piece.

HDG · 10-11-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatReallyHurt

I've been using some heavy bookbinding tape, it wears a lot better than any of the other tapes I've used (although I've never used gaff tape or Tiger Tape). If you slice it with a sharp knife, you can peel the whole thing off in one nice piece.

My recollection from my college work-study days in the acquisitions office of my undergrad school's library is that this stuff is pretty much the same as gaffer's tape.

Robert Smith · 10-11-2007, 07:25 PM

Hockey tape. It's a pretty basic fabric tape, cheap, lasts well, removes quite easily without sticky residue and comes in a slew of different colours. One roll, at < $5, should last ANYone at least a year.

fencerX · 10-15-2007, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peet

Make sure you have tape completely covering the last 15 cm of your blade.

Oh, and it's also a rule.

Quote:

Originally Posted by peet

The tip tape is very neccessary for foil, and must not be on an epee.

Rule trivia questions:

1) When can you use a foil without "tape completely covering the last 15 cm of your blade" and while it might not be a good idea, you'd still be within the rules?

2) What rule(s), if any, forbids tip tape on an epee?

peet · 10-15-2007, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fencerX

Rule trivia questions:

1) When can you use a foil without "tape completely covering the last 15 cm of your blade" and while it might not be a good idea, you'd still be within the rules?

2) What rule(s), if any, forbids tip tape on an epee?

1) When it got that way after inspection, during fencing, and the ref doesn't really care???

2) I dunno, I wasn't really talking about the rules there. Rule or no rule, you really don't want tape on your epees...

-p

fencerX · 10-15-2007, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peet

1) When it got that way after inspection, during fencing, and the ref doesn't really care???

Think during inspection, find the applicable rule and what it actually requires. Hint: it isn't necessarily tape :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peet

2) I dunno, I wasn't really talking about the rules there. Rule or no rule, you really don't want tape on your epees...

Yes/no ... Would you as a ref forbid a fencer to use an epee with tape on the blade. If yes, by what rule(s) ?