10-10-2007, 09:40 PM
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#1 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 81
| canting a new blade
Last week I broke a blade (rather badly) on fencing partner. It was a basic Prieur. I got a replacement this week (shelled out for a BF blue FIE) and it came pretty much unbent on one axis. So I pulled out a vise and went at it.
It was hard work and, well, pretty terrifying. I really had to lean into it to get any kind of bend at all. Actually broke a sweat doing it (am 5'6" and 129lbs so not much mass to work with.) It seemed like a lot of force to use on a blade. It's too late to ask since I've already bent it, but is this how it's supposed to be done? If so, it seems pretty inelegant, to me anyway. | 
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10-10-2007, 10:09 PM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pacoima, ca USA
Posts: 5,828
| FIE blades tend to be tougher to cant in in the first place, so this does not sound out of the ordinary.
France Lames had some near the end that God Himself couldn;t put a cant into! | |
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10-11-2007, 06:54 AM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 960
| Nearly all of us use something that gives us more leverage when we cant an FIE blade. That tells you it's hard. | |
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10-11-2007, 07:24 AM
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#4 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 81
| Quote:
Originally Posted by brtech  Nearly all of us use something that gives us more leverage when we cant an FIE blade. | Like what? Thanks, -Sam | |
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10-11-2007, 08:27 AM
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#5 | | Perpetual Ephemerist
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,409
| I use the acetone pipe (minus the acetone) that I keep around for rewiring.
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You only need two tools in life - WD-40 and duct tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
¯\(°_o)/¯ | |
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10-11-2007, 09:08 AM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Meadville, PA
Posts: 600
| Try looking through these discussions or many others on the topic. To cant or not to cant? Consistent cant to foil tangs?
Also, wear work gloves when canting. I've snapped blades while trying to cant them. Gloves are nice protection if that happens.
Tomas | |
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10-11-2007, 10:24 AM
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#7 | | Epee fencing addict
Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Glenwood, ny
Posts: 2,209
| Quote:
Originally Posted by magic_moose I use the acetone pipe (minus the acetone) that I keep around for rewiring. | The pipe is a good solution. I have been switching all my blades to Vnitis, which have a reputation for being hard to cant, but I don't have a problem when using this approach.
I start by putting the tang in a bench vise. I leave about 1/8 of an inch between the edge of the vise and the base of the blade. Then I slip a metal pipe over the blade. I pull on the pipe in the direction that I want the blade to go - slow steady pressure for a few seconds. I stop and measure to see if the blade is where I want it and if not, I repeat until it is.
To match the cant of one weapon to another, put the weapon that has the desired cant in the vise, then mount a piece of cardboard vertically on the work bench near the tip of the weapon. Mark a spot on the cardboard where the tip is. Leave the cardboard exactly where it is and mount the new weapon in the vise and cant it. When the tip of the new weapon is pointing to the mark on the cardboard, you're done.
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One test is worth a thousand opinions.
I ain't as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was. - Toby Keith
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo | |
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10-11-2007, 10:57 AM
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#8 | | Admin
Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,621
| Quote:
Originally Posted by parrythis I start by putting the tang in a bench vise. I leave about 1/8 of an inch between the edge of the vise and the base of the blade. Then I slip a metal pipe over the blade. I pull on the pipe in the direction that I want the blade to go - slow steady pressure for a few seconds. I stop and measure to see if the blade is where I want it and if not, I repeat until it is. | This is what I'll do at the shop. At tournaments where I don't have a good vice setup, I'll be using the handle of a wrench to get the leverage - for FIE blades it becomes quite entertaining to others.
Craig | |
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10-11-2007, 01:17 PM
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#9 | | Boom!
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada
Posts: 5,925
| Has anyone tried putting the tang through the holes in a basement support post (telepost?) then rotating it so that all you need to do is pull straight down on the forte to cant it in the right direction? It's supposedly easier, since all you need to do is use your hands and let gravity do the work for you...
I've been told that this works quite well, but I haven't needed to set a new blade for quite some time and I'd be a little worried about the metal edges of the support post putting nicks into the tang threads.
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Pound for pound, the amoeba is the most vicious animal on earth. | |
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10-11-2007, 01:43 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006 Location: E13
Posts: 488
| I was just wondering the other day about the cant people put on a Sabre blade.
I assume most people do, right?
I know it's a personal thing, like the cant on an epee blade but what's the
general thought?
Just down? Down and in?
What sort of angle? | |
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10-11-2007, 01:51 PM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Live in Maine...Fence in New Hampshire
Posts: 1,201
| Be Very Very Careful!
I purchased two of the Absolute FIE blades to complement my assortment of BF and FL FIEs (yes, the FLs are very old!).
First, I would like to say that the Absolute FIE blade which I have mounted and wired has a great feel to it...it really is a great blade so far.
Second, don't try to cant the Absolute FIE blade yourself if you purchase one! Ask them to do it for you. I broke one right at the shoulder of the blade when I was trying to cant it...it took lots of strenth, and it snapped before it bent EVEN A LITTLE. Depending on how you cant your blades (I use a steel tube and a giant vise), it can be dangerous if this happens. I recommend wearing heavy work gloves and long sleeves at a minimum.
When I spoke to Absolute, they said that they prefer to do the cant themselves...so I sent back the broken blade and they sent me a new one with the cant I described to them. | |
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10-11-2007, 04:50 PM
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#12 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 81
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas N | great thread. I recant... | |
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10-11-2007, 06:52 PM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,511
| My current method is sticking the TANG in the vice. Then I grab onto the forte and pull.
It took me a little trial and um... error, to get this canting thing right. On one of my early canting adventures, I just put the blade in the vice and started tapping on the tang with a hammer.
That was a $100 mistake.
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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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10-12-2007, 11:06 AM
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#14 | | Member
Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Milwaukee, WI, USA
Posts: 77
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Beloit Fencer of Old When I spoke to Absolute, they said that they prefer to do the cant themselves...so I sent back the broken blade and they sent me a new one with the cant I described to them. | Agreed. Why take chances? If the supplier will do the canting for you and you can describe what you want, you need not worry about whether the blade may snap or being injured in the attempt. They will also cut the tang to fit whatever grip you use if not a french.
I have virtually NO armoring aquipment of my own, but my friend and coach(Neevel) is the owner of my club and the division armorer as well so I have learned everything I need to know to build my foils and I do most of my own armoring at his place with his tools. I usually bring some beverages and help work on club equipment as well. He taught me to cant my first blades using a really big wrench - crescent on one end, box on the other for like a 1 1/8" nut. Wrap a bit of tip tape to protect the threads, stick the thread end thru the box end of the wrench and apply even pressure either with the blade in a vise or with the blade in one hand and the wrench in the other bending away from you with your thumbs touching. The last time i did this I was technically "recanting" since he sold me one of his used blades and because he is left-handed and I am righty, I had to move it from about 15 degrees to the right to about 15 degrees to the left. It was a little scary, but I just took my time and applied slow, steady pressure.
Side note: The same wrench can also be used to train a downward curve in a foil blade by bending every inch or so down the length of the blade. If you do this it allows the blade to flex evenly along the full length of the blade and helps prevent the blade bending only at the foible which can potentially cause nasty kinks or worse **snap**
Kirk  | |
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10-14-2007, 06:46 PM
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#15 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: May 2000 Location: The valley of the -hot- sun, NorCal
Posts: 3,184
| Everyone speaks of pulling on the blade or tang to cant it. I think that this is a mistake. It's easier to push, and also less dangerous: if the blade snaps, you aren't going to fly back on your butt! Also you can put your weight into it, which makes it less strenuous on your back.
__________________ - Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
- To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial
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10-14-2007, 11:20 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 224
| I actually have an old, disposable grip from my early days of fencing that I slip onto the tang; laying the blade across the shallow step in my garage (i.e., blade at a 45 degree angle, with the grip touching the floor and the forte about 2" up supported on the step), I can judiciously use a 3-lb mallet on the part of the grip just below where the tang meets the forte and gradually cant the blade any direction I like (up, down, right, left) ... the grip protects the threads and adds support to the tang in all directions so that the cant occurs in the right place (where force is being applied), it takes a minimum of effort on my part, and I find it to be much more controlled than hand-torquing the blade on a vise. As with all suggestions, YMMV. | |
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10-15-2007, 11:35 AM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 232
| Quote:
Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken! My current method is sticking the TANG in the vice. Then I grab onto the forte and pull. |
Yes, me, too. I put the tang in, with about a cm (a little less than half an inch) or so sticking out, and then it's easy peasy lemon squeezie, even though I am about the size of the original poster. Not leaving enough sticking out just makes the job unnecissarily hard - I used to leave only about 1/8 inch, and then would have to wedge my feet against the table and kind of straighten my legs to get the bend, essentially standing on the side of the bench, perpendicular to gravity. Or go find a big burly guy, which got to be rather a drag for them after a while. | |
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10-15-2007, 11:36 AM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: near Boston
Posts: 3,261
| Quote:
Originally Posted by sir alasdair Side note: The same wrench can also be used to train a downward curve in a foil blade by bending every inch or so down the length of the blade. If you do this it allows the blade to flex evenly along the full length of the blade and helps prevent the blade bending only at the foible which can potentially cause nasty kinks or worse **snap**
Kirk | It is also polite to your opponents.
Even more so in Epee.
If a good size fencer fleches against you or extends when you fleche against them and the arm is straight and no bend in the blade, a person can be injured. A smooth curve in the blade avoids that.
You also avoid the possibility that the first bend in the blade will be in the wrong direction, beneficial for the blade in the long run.
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It is now after July 4th. My avatar with the Xmas hat is no longer late.
It is now officially early.
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10-15-2007, 02:04 PM
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#19 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Staying in DC; pining for Texas
Posts: 1,452
| Is it really a matter of canting? Or is it merely won'ting? Or even possibly wouldn'ting? Hmmmmmmm. 
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For your copy of "The Care and Feeding of All Things Fencing" go to http://www.homfencing.com | |
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10-15-2007, 05:21 PM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: near Boston
Posts: 3,261
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Mergs Is it really a matter of canting? Or is it merely won'ting? Or even possibly wouldn'ting? Hmmmmmmm. | There's no hyphen, you have the wrong cant.
Wikipedia:
Cant is an example of a cryptolect, a characteristic or secret language used only by members of a group, often used to conceal the meaning from those outside the group.
Like when fencers talk to each other or, even better, when referees talk to each other, or armorers. 
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It is now after July 4th. My avatar with the Xmas hat is no longer late.
It is now officially early.
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