Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Psi Shadowdark · 08-07-2002, 10:55 PM

hey guys i have yet another newbie question for ya =)
jacket - knicker materials iv seen come in either stretchy nylon or a non - stetch (cotton?)
whitch of these 2 should i buy? the stretchy seem to sound the best, but does it protect as well?

John Nguyen · 08-07-2002, 11:57 PM

I have two cotton jackets, and they are VERY VERY form fitting, sometimes TOO formfitting. In fact they offer EXCELLENT protection. (Front velco fastener )

However, I recently bought a Nylon stretch jacket, and its VERY VERY comfortable, cool, and light. The best part about it is the light weight, and ability to move around freely.I had a 44 jacket, but I wear a 42 Stretch, and the stretch is a lil' loose, but otherwise comfortable. So, I would suggest FRONTZIP (important key!)...and then I would suggest Nylon Stretch. But anything other then 100% cotton, would be good, 'cept the body armour those SCA guys use, NOW THAT IS CRAYZAY!!!!!
heh

John

John Nguyen · 08-08-2002, 12:16 AM

oops, and my THIRD jacket was the Nylon

Gav · 08-08-2002, 01:16 AM

The important thing is the Newton (N) rating, next year (in the UK at least) regular 350N cotton and Nylon jackets will not be allowed at any tourney. If you want to compete then you'll have to invest in the heavier 800N material jackets (in the UK).

In terms of which is best that's a personal choice. Try each on and see which you prefer.
My old allstar jacket had stretch panels so it was a combination stretch/not strechy jacket and was very comfortable.

Gav · 08-08-2002, 02:12 AM

I just wanted to state [seperately] that I'm not sure of the date of this change. It's not this season coming [2002/3] I think it's the one after [2003/4).

Zelda · 08-08-2002, 03:52 AM

Gav, FIE gear has been the "required" standard at Australian National circut comps for years.

Gav · 08-08-2002, 04:39 AM

Yes but this is the UK - we love being anachronistic!

lol

I only put that comment up as Psi hasn't filled in his/her nationality.

[ 08-08-2002, 07:50 AM: Message edited by: Gav ]

Zelda · 08-08-2002, 04:46 AM

I'm just saying that for some of us it is accepted already, we didnt need EU standards to change everything.

[ 08-08-2002, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: Zelda ]

Gav · 08-08-2002, 04:52 AM

Most fencers in the UK use FIE kit anyway. I think some mandate has been handed out from 'on high' and safety is being enforced.

Psi Shadowdark · 08-08-2002, 05:48 AM

im from the US. do any of u guys know if the 800n standerd will be in effect here?

Zilverzmurfen · 08-08-2002, 10:19 AM

Why not buy a 800 N jacket, any brand, event if you'll compete or not?

Fencing clothes and masks are SAFETY gear, protect yourself!

// Zz

D'Artagnan1673 · 08-08-2002, 12:19 PM

PSI,

To my understanding, you can fence at Division 1 Nationals, the cream of the crop, in standard, 350 NW jacket and knickers.

However, I agee with Zilverzmurfen that all fencers should seriously consider FIE gear. However, for those of you who aren't in the US, our vendors have a racket here. In Europe, FIE gear really isn't that much more expensive than standard gear, but in the US, that is different. An Uhlmann standard jacket may run $130, but the World Cup model will run $230 and the Olympia near $300.

However, if you like Uhlmann, then try <a href="http://www.thefencingpost.com." target="_blank">www.thefencingpost.com.</a> They have a very long running "sale" in which their FIE gear is sold much closer to what you can buy in Europe. Of course, Uhlmann is cut for more rounded people. I'm fairly slim but the only item I own that doesn't fit to my satisfaction is my mask. When I start moving fast, it rattles just enough that after every point I must fix it.

Back to PSI's original question, I prefer nylon vs. cotton any day. My FIE has cotton with Nylon stretch panels, I love it! FIE uniforms are nicely form fitting and they feel great!!! Another thing I love about them is that I can give an epee lesson and not feel a thing!! I generally have to pull the coach's platron to avoid taking some hits.

counter riposte · 08-08-2002, 01:51 PM

In the US, unless you are planning to compete for Div I Nationals as D'arts last post, you really don't need to have FIE gear.

If you are planning to do this for fun, and possibly local competition, regular fencing equipment will do. If you plan on fencing at higher levels, FIE 800N equipment will be required.

Back to the original question. I personally use cotton 350N equipment, mostly out of prefererence, and compete at fairly low levels of competition. The strech materials I have seen allow for greater flexibility and protection, as well as breath better.

My advice would be to ask some people at your salle about thier preferences, what the upside and downsides are, etc. Ultimately, it will come down to what you like.

Inquartata · 08-08-2002, 08:10 PM

D'Art! Nylon?! You?!

Oh, my faith in your fondness for all things traditional in fencing is shaken to the core!

damianip · 08-08-2002, 08:42 PM

Cotton: heavy, restrictive yet protective. Less bruises. Gets wet and stays wet for a long time. Something to consider for washing but more importantly, for long tournaments.

Stretch nylon: Lighter, less restrictive, less protection. Some people may find it uncomfortable next to the skin. Depends on the person and the fabric. Dries faster than cotton.

FIE: Depending on the manufacturer, can be light stretchy or not. Comfortable next to the skin or not. It won't take the sting out of a hard hit like cotton, but it is more likely to save your life.

If I were to fence épée, I would use at the least a 800N FIE plastron and a 350N CE jacket as an economical compromise. I would recommend 800N for at least the jacket and plastron as a rule.

It's probably a little less critical with the other two weapons.

Personally, I find the Soudet FIE gear to be extremely light, comfortable and has very good wicking properties. Unfortunately, getting Soudet gear is tough in this country (USA).

Paolo

Purple Fencer · 08-08-2002, 08:58 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by counter riposte:
[QB]In the US, unless you are planning to compete for Div I Nationals as D'arts last post, you really don't need to have FIE gear.
<hr /></blockquote>Slight clarification...the ONLY U.S. event you would HAVE to have FIE gear for would be a World Cup held on U.S. soil. To the best of my knowledge, for any and all other U.S. events - up to and including Nationals -- FIE's are not required. It's not required for the Div I events, so I doubt it's required for the Div IA events...'course, if you qualify for Div !AQ, you;ve probably got FIE's anyway!

achilleus · 08-08-2002, 09:20 PM

I'd always heard from armorers that FIE Equipment is safest stuff to use provided your opponent is using FIE blades. The test they use to measure the strength of the fabric uses a cone no where near as sharp as a broken blade could be. Especially if the blade is not FIE, and therefore more prone to having jagged edges at the break.

Now, while I know that's how the FIE test the materials, I've heard of tests conducted outside the FIE that determined the best protection vs. a jagged blade is the heavy cotton stuff.

Then again I don't think any fabric is going to stop a sharp point.

If any of the armorers has more info on the subject, it would be cool to know.

D'Artagnan1673 · 08-09-2002, 05:46 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Inquartata:
D'Art! Nylon?! You?!

Oh, my faith in your fondness for all things traditional in fencing is shaken to the core!

If it makes you feel any better, my first uniform was a Santelli Twill Cotton jacket and knickers, thats the one with the buttons instead of zipper. I really liked it but found that it wasn't as protective against hard epee thrusts so I got something new.

Gav · 08-09-2002, 06:22 AM

Gasp!

D'art are you saying that something new is better than something old? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

D'Artagnan1673 · 08-09-2002, 06:36 AM

Yep, an AMD XP CPU is better than the 8086 or the 8088.

As far as uniforms are concerned, I love my new technology. I've seen the old masks that were worn before our time. They had little padding and no forehead restraint. I love my Uhlmann FIE mask and wouldn't trade it for something more traditional looking, except maybe a Prieur.