Bayonet or 2-Prong?

[samster]

Bayonet or 2-prong? Pros and cons? Thanks in advance for any opinions...
-Sam

[fatfencer]

Bayonet, definitely!!! There are no parts to come undone.

FF

[erooMynohtnA]

Just use whatever everyone else in your club uses.

[HDG]

Bayonet (LP, Negrini or Carmimari) is the better design, but two-prongs are more plentiful, and more easily borrowed if anything goes wrong. I have opted for bayonet.

If you go bayonet, buy name brand; DO NOT under any circumstances buy knock-offs. They are without exception garbage.

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

I'm going to go against the trend here. When I started fencing, my club all used bayonet. They would fall apart and fail regularly. We converted the club to two-prong, and we never had any more problems.

Now, I belong to another club which is all bayonet. Seems as though I am the only member who never has problems with his body cords.

Anecdotal at best, but that's my free input.

[SJCFU#2]

Be warned - bayonet vs. two-prong is one of those questions that many approach with almost religious fervor. Still, here are a few thoughts:

First off, either system can work well - quality of components is often more important than the system itself. Many people simply choose whatever everyone else at their club uses (makes it easier to borrow a cord in an emergency).

Probably the biggest advantage of the Leon Paul bayonet socket and plug (what most people refer to when they say bayonet) is that the plug locks securely into the socket without some sort of special clip. Leon Paul body cords are also among the thinnest, most flexible on the market, and quite strong for their size, even if they tend to be a bit more expensive. However they are not entirely maintenance free (despite what some people seem to think). From time to time it is necessary to pull the cover back from the plug and tighten down all the screws. Every once in a while it is also a good idea to loosen the screws, pull a little bit of fresh wire through the plug, then tighten them down again (this is where the pointed tips of the screws come in handy - no need to strip the insulation from the wire). However if you do go that way I would recommend sticking with genuine Leon Paul - some of the copies have quality problems (I've seen sockets that had over 100 ohms internal resistance).

There are other forms of bayonet plug as well. Most widely known are probably those from Negrini and Carmimari. These are probably even more secure than the Leon Paul bayonets however they also tend to be considerably more expensive and as such are rather uncommon, at least in the US.

The biggest advantage to two-prong plugs is simplicity - you can't get much simpler than a single block of plastic and two pins held in place by the same screws that hold the end of the wire to the pin. However two-prong plugs generally require some form of retaining mechanism, and most people agree that an integral clip on the plug beats a separate clip on the socket, despite the tendency for the screw holding the retaining clip to work its way loose over time. Plus whenever you take a two-prong plug apart you have to make sure that you connect the correct wire to the correct pin (they are different sizes for a reason). Probably the biggest problem with two-prong plugs is maintaining good contact between the pins and the socket. The thin pieces of metal that bow out from the sides of the pins tend to get compress down over time, resulting in a loose fit between the plug and the socket, which in turn leads to intermittent white lights. Cheap cords tend to have more frequent problems in this regard but about the only ones that avoid it entirely are plugs that use solid pins such as the Leon Paul two-prong and HOM Fencing (available from our very own Purple Fencer) and of these only the HOM cords have integral retaining clips.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by SJCFU#2

the only ones that avoid it entirely are plugs that use solid pins such as the Leon Paul two-prong and HOM Fencing (available from our very own Purple Fencer) and of these only the HOM cords have integral retaining clips.

Heh....thanks for teh props.

A status report on those cords, by the way. We're FINALLY getting some master blocks made to check the last bits of fine tuning Mergs and I have done...some parts had a slight dimension change and there were some other minor, yet important changes to the block.

When it's all said & done, it'll be a fine cord, if I do say so myself! I have TRIED to minimize the usual flaws in teh 2 pin design.

[brtech]

Originally Posted by SJCFU#2

..snip..
Every once in a while it is also a good idea to loosen the screws, pull a little bit of fresh wire through the plug, then tighten them down again (this is where the pointed tips of the screws come in handy - no need to strip the insulation from the wire).

I don't think this is a good idea unless you are having problems. Do you know where that bit of advice comes from? Have you seen an LP cord that did not respond to the back off/tighten the screws fix?

There are other forms of bayonet plug as well. Most widely known are probably those from Negrini and Carmimari. These are probably even more secure than the Leon Paul bayonets however they also tend to be considerably more expensive and as such are rather uncommon, at least in the US.

Yah, what he said. They have soldered connections and the wire they use is super strong. They are the most reliable connectors available.

The biggest advantage to two-prong plugs is simplicity - you can't get much simpler than a single block of plastic and two pins held in place by the same screws that hold the end of the wire to the pin.

Huh? No german style 2 pin uses the screws that hold the plug together as the screws that hold the wire in the pin. Not even the Mr. Chen E-Z Break plugs do that. There are 5 screws in an Uhlmann 2 pin: the two in the pins, the two on the plug body that hold it together, and the one on the clip.

[samster]

Jeezus. I just posted the question minutes ago... Speed of light is impressive.

[SJCFU#2]

Originally Posted by brtech

I don't think this is a good idea unless you are having problems. Do you know where that bit of advice comes from? Have you seen an LP cord that did not respond to the back off/tighten the screws fix?

Backing off/tightening the screws generally is usually enough (along with making sure that the screws that everything else together are also tight). However eventually corrosion and wear take their toll and it becomes necessary to back off the screws, pull a little bit of wire through (it only takes a cm or two), then tighten the screws, piercing the insulation at a new spot. All in all, still easier than taking apart and reassembling a German-style plug.

Originally Posted by brtech

Huh? No german style 2 pin uses the screws that hold the plug together as the screws that hold the wire in the pin. Not even the Mr. Chen E-Z Break plugs do that. There are 5 screws in an Uhlmann 2 pin: the two in the pins, the two on the plug body that hold it together, and the one on the clip.

But what I described wasn't a German plug - I described Prieur (French). Unfortunately Prieur also has one of the worst retaining mechanism ever made - the plastic clip on their socket doesn't even fit well over their own plug. Which is why most people favor German-style plugs - there may be more parts but at least the retaining clip usually works (unless you're one of those people who ignore the screw that holds the clip in place until works its way loose and falls out).

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by SJCFU#2

But what I described wasn't a German plug - I described Prieur (French). Unfortunately Prieur also has one of the worst retaining mechanism ever made - the plastic clip on their socket doesn't even fit well over their own plug.

Not true at all....the clip fits fine & dandy..............so long as the body cord wire isn't there to get in teh way...

[Neinteen]

Two-prong never caused me problems. I broke a bayonet once.

And my team is mainly bayonet, so I use 2-prong to avoid charing

[I_luv_saber]

I used two prong Uhlmann for a very long time. In my experience, they were great at first, but once those screws worked loose the first time they came loose every week (and I don't really wanna solder it or anything... lazy, mostly). I've had no problems with bayonet thus far (been using them for about two months), but they still have a lot of "testing" to be done . For sure it feels more secure though. I don't seem to fidget with the cord between touches anymore.

I have no idea where the cords are from... were given to me when my club shut down. The sockets I bought from PBT.

I think it's mostly a matter of preference... not a big deal, but so far I like my bayonet cords...

[mrbiggs]

Use what your club uses.



But two prong are easier to ground, and do armory stuff on in general in my experience. Then again, I've fixed many more two prong than bayonet.

[fatfencer]

2 prong sucks!!!!


FF

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by fatfencer

2 prong sucks!!!!


FF

Actually, I've seen about the same amount of problems with each design....that's what I'm trying to solve (you got that email today, right?)

The major problem is that the makers simply do not attempt to solve the problems inherent in their designs....they don;t want to spend the money.

Every design has a problem...LP's main one is in the receiving socket (the plastic tabs inside eventually wear out and teh cord comes loose...although they may have finally solved that one. The plug end is a resistance one...but backing he screws out a little and recranking them solves that quickly.

Uhlmann/allstar's is the wires breaking with distressing frequency right where they come out of the plastic housing (not to mention the wire's gotten stiffer and thicker, so it's harder to cram it into the case)

Uhlmann/Allstar and Prieur have those little cages around teh pins that get smashed down...and the brass screws on Prieur are absolute crap.

[twisterfencing]

2-prong

[Tomas N]

Originally Posted by SJCFU#2

Probably the biggest problem with two-prong plugs is maintaining good contact between the pins and the socket. The thin pieces of metal that bow out from the sides of the pins tend to get compress down over time, resulting in a loose fit between the plug and the socket, which in turn leads to intermittent white lights. Cheap cords tend to have more frequent problems in this regard but about the only ones that avoid it entirely are plugs that use solid pins such as the Leon Paul two-prong and HOM Fencing (available from our very own Purple Fencer) and of these only the HOM cords have integral retaining clips.

I have a couple of Uhlmann body cords where this failure to bow out is a real problem. I also have problems with cheaper 2-prong body cords. So if you go with the 2-prong, it's definitely worth the extra $5-10 to get a good cord. Don't get ones where the thin metal strips that bow out are a seperate piece that is loose around the prongs. This is an inferior design. The attached pic may help. Get plugs that look like the ones on the right.

Tomas

[finnfence]

I go with bayonet, because I've tried both and found that both break (Murphy's law) at competitions, and a bayonet I can fix myself on the side of the strip between DEs, or even between pool bouts, but a two-prong is tricky to get the plastic housing back on straight if you're sweaty, nervous and don't have a good work space where you can find little screws that drop off accidentally.

I've also found that because bayonets are rarer, I've never had a problem with people stealing my cords or blades in clubs where that's an issue, or accidentally walking off with them at tournaments where people sometimes grab the nearest blade not realizing it isn't theirs, then pack it up and only realize their mistake when they're back home, in another state or country and with no clue how to return your stuff to you. That last is a real issue for me, because I'm a total fluffbrain at tournaments and often leave bits of my equipment scattered all over the venue - for example, if a weapon fails and it's confiscated for the bout, I'll often forget to retrieve it until the end of the tournament. Having a bayonet plug means that at least a good 80% of the people who pick it up thinking it's theirs will realize almost immediately that it isn't.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by finnfence

I'm a total fluffbrain at tournaments and often leave bits of my equipment scattered all over the venue

You're a vendor's dream!!!!