Working up my initiative

[Heavenguard]

I've realized that I have a tendency to hang back and wait for someone to initiate an attack, and then defend (and sometimes, but not always, riposte). I think it might be a personality or mindset kind of thing, as this is also how I used to play go (a strategy board game). I think part of the reason is because I'm not very good at strategizing myself, and it's mentally easier for me to defend rather than attack.

I know some people can work that way and do well, but I think it would benefit me if I could work on that. Any suggestions?

[erooMynohtnA]

Make your first action immediately after the command fence an exploratory step forward. If the distance hasn't collapsed to lunge distance yet, take another exploratory step forward; repeat as needed. Once you get to lunge distance and your opponent doesn't have RoW, lunge and hit your opponent, or if your opponent has RoW, parry and riposte.

Note that is a gross oversimplification.

[RITFencing]

Well, you can always play an active defense game, by using your footwork and distance and making invitations/false attacks to try and get the opponent to attack when, where and how you want, then hit them from that. This can be a very effective strategy.

You can also force yourself out of this rut by forcing yourself to try attacking and counter attacking instead of defending. Just bear in mind: it will not always work, especially at first. Do it anyway. You're going to get worse while you incorporate something new into your game, but you need to be able to kill your ego in practice and just work to get better at something. Don't worry about winning bouts or even scoring touches. Just focus on making attacks, hopefully which work, and learn what you can from the ones that do and the ones that don't.

In other words: there's no magic bullet. Just work hard. (Much like weight loss.)

[stu]

I have the same problem, which in sabre is a nightmare. One friend suggested that I could get round it by planning the first couple of seconds of the next hit before it started. Often, this hanging back comes from waiting for things to develop. With a clear plan, you already know what you're doing, and usually you'll have picked something attacking to do. Of course, you can take it too far; I've certainly walked onto a lot more points since then, but on the whole, it's helped.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by RITFencing

you need to be able to kill your ego in practice and just work to get better at something.

This is the best bit of advice I've seen here in a while.

Edit: Well, lots of people make the point, but this is the best way I've seen it presented.

[AdamH]

Hi Heaven, if you played go, you must now how important the concept of sente is.

You must take the active initiative. If your opponent is always playing kikashi, you must play honte. If you play passive, you will become heavy and slow.

Amashi is active, but steady can win. Modern go in the Korean style is so light it floats on the goban, eh

If you are always gote you will end up leaving bad aji forever.

Consider the direction of play; fencing has many miai choices.

Sente, sente, sente!

p.s. my first foil was called tesuji

[Heavenguard]

I suppose I could do the thing where I try to plan out the next move or two, and then just go for it. I've never applied go-talk to anything else besides go, but I suppose its wisdom transcends all

[erooMynohtnA]

Originally Posted by Heavenguard

I suppose I could do the thing where I try to plan out the next move or two, and then just go for it. I've never applied go-talk to anything else besides go, but I suppose its wisdom transcends all

You can fence defensively and control the bout, or you can fence offensively and control the bout.

If you want to score on a riposte, you can wait for your opponent to attack, you can invite with a very low absence of blade, or you can pressure them into attacking by crowding them.

It's not about planning "I'm going to feint high, coupe to the inside, then disengage low and finish with a lunge." If you plan something that minutely, something's going to go wrong. It's about getting a loose idea of the position you want to be in and getting yourself into that situation.

[tkexi991]

Originally Posted by erooMynohtnA

It's about getting a loose idea of the position you want to be in and getting yourself into that situation.

Or find out where you want him to be and manipulate him into meeting your point there.

[erooMynohtnA]

Originally Posted by tkexi991

Or find out where you want him to be and manipulate him into meeting your point there.

By position, I meant the bout position, or rather, where both fencers are and what they're doing at the moment, not just where you are.

[big daddy]

When you play the passive game, you are always behind the attacker. He has teh choice , he is in many cases dictating the tempo of the bout. What ever you do is a recation. Defebse is my favorite way to fence however, it's not a winning style on any level other than the low ones (at least for me). I have had my best scussees at mixing an defensive atttacking style. This means using by offense to set up my defense (second intention. Still as of late , Im forcinf myself to do more attacking.

[Welted 24/7]

It's okay to fence defensively, but you can't always be reacting to your opponent's actions. You might guess right with a parry or attack in prep once in a while, but that's a pretty lousy way to go about things. You've got to be in control of the bout- if he's going to attack you, you want it to be because you're prepared to deal with it. When he attacks, it's got to be because YOU wanted it to happen.

But like Anthony said, don't get so caught up in planning things that you can't adjust. If you have a set of actions all laid out in your head like he described and it doesn't go like you planned, you might be screwed.

This isn't saying everything that happens in a bout has to happen because you wanted it to, because obviously, **** happens. But you want to be in control of as much of it as possible.

[TBean]

Being an active defender is a reasonable way to fence but as others have said it is not reactive, it is you controling the actions and creating the opportunities you want. Also, you still need to initiate attack every now and again. This keeps your opponent honest, letting them know you do know how to make those actions and they need to be prepared for that as well.