10-01-2007, 12:26 AM
|
#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pacoima, ca USA
Posts: 5,832
| PSA -- busting the "flat breaking FIE blade" myth
We've all heard the fencing urban legend that FIE blades are designed to break flat....not matter HOW often experienced armorers at every level -- from me to Dan deChaine -- attempt to correct it with facts (the breakage patterns of FIE vs non-FIE are about identical, and the only reason FIE blades exist is because they simply break less frequently, and thus lessen the chance of potential follow-on injury), we still keep hearing it.
so...today I was brought an StM FIE epee blade (which i had repaired not 10 minutes before!!) that had snapped...see the link for the pics. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../Epeebreak.jpg
The top 2 are of the tip section...note that this is definitely NOT a flat break. also note the VERY sharp spike on it.
The bottom 2 are of the other half of it...although it looks a bit blunt, it is still quite sharp...and on the bottom left pic, you can see where the blade peeled apart (bottom right of the blade).
This has been a public service announcement...thank you... | 
|  | | And now for this message... |
| |
10-01-2007, 12:32 AM
|
#2 | | Madness?
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,005
| That is a shop. I can tell from some of the pixels, and having seen many shops in my time.
Seriously though, once someone hears that maraging steel breaks flat, there's no reasoning with them. | |
| | |
10-01-2007, 12:39 AM
|
#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pacoima, ca USA
Posts: 5,832
| Quote:
Originally Posted by erooMynohtnA  That is a shop. I can tell from some of the pixels, and having seen many shops in my time. | I know you're joking....but I will state for the record that it is NOT a shop....I DO have some integrity as an armorer! | |
| | |
10-01-2007, 12:46 AM
|
#4 | | Madness?
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,005
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Fencer I know you're joking....but I will state for the record that it is NOT a shop....I DO have some integrity as an armorer! | Well, you wouldn't have had to use photoshop anyway, because it doesn't have the FIE shield in the picture. Someone could just claim it was a non-FIE blade. But I believe you anyway. | |
| | |
10-01-2007, 12:51 AM
|
#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pacoima, ca USA
Posts: 5,832
| Quote:
Originally Posted by erooMynohtnA Well, you wouldn't have had to use photoshop anyway, because it doesn't have the FIE shield in the picture. Someone could just claim it was a non-FIE blade. But I believe you anyway. | I'd be difficult to get the shield into the pic clearly enough to be identifiable anyway...the break was about 6 inches from the tip | |
| | |
10-01-2007, 12:57 AM
|
#6 | | Madness?
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,005
| You know, if American Fencing needed an article, I think the myth of FIE blades breaking flat would make one. | |
| | |
10-01-2007, 01:19 AM
|
#7 | | Scrub
Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Miami
Posts: 2,515
| Quote:
Originally Posted by erooMynohtnA You know, if American Fencing needed an article, I think the myth of FIE blades breaking flat would make one. | If memory serves, AF was also the source of the myth. | |
| | |
10-01-2007, 06:51 AM
|
#8 | | Have Blazer, Will Travel
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 10,037
| Just to be certain, it wasn't an FIE-N blade, right? | |
| | |
10-01-2007, 09:03 AM
|
#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Texas
Posts: 2,870
| Sam,
I have about 12 broken FIE blades in my garage. Most are BF white, but at least 3 are not. I will photograph them late tonight when I get back home. We will see.
JEC
__________________
Epee is the Sword.
| |
| | |
10-01-2007, 10:09 AM
|
#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pacoima, ca USA
Posts: 5,832
| Quote:
Originally Posted by KD5MDK Just to be certain, it wasn't an FIE-N blade, right? | Standard FIE blade....maraging steel.
JEC...looking forward to seeing the pics....mine may be an extreme example, but it's clear teh blade didn't break flat (I've sen it before but did not think to take a pic) | |
| | |
10-01-2007, 10:11 AM
|
#11 | | Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,563
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Fencer I know you're joking....but I will state for the record that it is NOT a shop....I DO have some integrity as an armorer! | I can also confirm that these images are not a shop.
I was not offered saleable items of any kind when I clicked on the links. | |
| | |
10-01-2007, 10:39 AM
|
#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pacoima, ca USA
Posts: 5,832
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Gav I can also confirm that these images are not a shop.
I was not offered saleable items of any kind when I clicked on the links. | I think he was referring to a Photoshop manipulation of the pics to support my point, not an attemt to generate sales.
JEC...when you pull those blades, in addition to taking pictures, check and see how sharp the ends are. The myth has always been that they break flat, implying NO sharp ends to penetrate a mask. The weapon end fo the blade I have certainly LOOKS fairly flat, but I would NOT want to get hit with it! A hit on an unprotected part of the bod would get ugly REAL fast! | |
| | |
10-01-2007, 10:50 AM
|
#13 | | Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,563
| Quote: |
I think he was referring to a Photoshop manipulation of the pics to support my point, not an attemt to generate sales.
| I know... Sometimes I am wasted on you lot. Really I am.
oh; and for a serious attempt this discussion. I thought that the Maraging thing was all about reducing the number of sharp points after a broken blade - not eliminating them.
One sharp point doesn't nullify this proposition.
I'd like to see a proper statistical analysis done - and quoted. | |
| | |
10-01-2007, 11:12 AM
|
#14 | | Have Blazer, Will Travel
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 10,037
| I believe the intention was to reduce the number of breakages, with the sharpness of said breakages being no different than ordinary. | |
| | |
10-01-2007, 12:05 PM
|
#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pacoima, ca USA
Posts: 5,832
| Quote:
Originally Posted by KD5MDK I believe the intention was to reduce the number of breakages, with the sharpness of said breakages being no different than ordinary. | *ding ding ding ding ding* We have a winnah!!!!
That was the intent...somewhere along the line, tho, it changed in the minds of fencers that they were designed to break flat,, not less frequently. | |
| | |
10-02-2007, 12:01 AM
|
#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: TX
Posts: 480
| GAV
Totally agree with you.
Since you are intrested in a statistical analysis (information), why don't you take care of that for us and get back with us?
We will wait for your answer. 
On a serious note: Yes, fie blades were suppose to break cleaner years ago. Not FLAT though! With mfg's using so many diffrent types of metals now/today and still getting them to pass inspection, who knows what we have now. Heck, take a look at the STM fie blades. Its not even made of maraging metal? OK??? The intent now is to clearly make the blade (with the testing and approval format) to last longer and to take additional stress than non maraging blades. Thats it!
Oh, bye the way, Sam's photo's are not photoshop in my opinion. If any croping was done, was only to get them all to fit on one pic to make it easier for anyone to look at.
Gary Spruill Quote:
Originally Posted by Gav One sharp point doesn't nullify this proposition.
I'd like to see a proper statistical analysis done - and quoted. |
__________________
Ancora Imparo
Last edited by twisterfencing; 10-02-2007 at 12:04 AM.
| |
| | |
10-02-2007, 12:12 AM
|
#17 | | Scrub
Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Miami
Posts: 2,515
| Quote:
Originally Posted by twisterfencing Heck, take a look at the STM fie blades. Its not even made of maraging metal? | Wow, I hadn't heard this. Isn't this just their FIE-N?
Last edited by HDG; 10-02-2007 at 12:15 AM.
| |
| | |
10-02-2007, 12:23 AM
|
#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pacoima, ca USA
Posts: 5,832
| Quote:
Originally Posted by HDG Wow, I hadn't heard this. Isn't this just their FIE-N? | The "N" simply means it is not maraging steel, but still passes all the tests | |
| | |
10-02-2007, 12:36 AM
|
#19 | | Have Blazer, Will Travel
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 10,037
| Right, but don't they have a maraging blade as well? | |
| | |
10-02-2007, 12:54 AM
|
#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pacoima, ca USA
Posts: 5,832
| |
