Armoring Rulebook question for wiring and sockets

[keith]

Originally Posted by oso97

Weight
Shimms
Tip screws
Barrel Tightness
Look down blade to see wire is not popping out and check bend
Lift bell pad to examine wires
Check clip securing body cord to weapon
Turn fencer around and check clip securing body cord to reel

you missed your check for;

In no case may uninsulated wires project beyond the point
where they are attached to the socket

[HDG]

Originally Posted by keith

you missed your check for;

In no case may uninsulated wires project beyond the point
where they are attached to the socket

Presumably subsumed by "Lift bell pad to examine wires".

[oso97]

Originally Posted by HDG

Presumably subsumed by "Lift bell pad to examine wires".

Indeed. One should check on the wires that the insulation goes from clip to grip, that they are fully and separately insulated and cannot be manipulated by fingers, and that they are not covered by opaque tape.

[KD5MDK]

BTW, I asked Dan Dechaine about this issue this afternoon and he repeated that it is a non-conforming weapon if the wires are on the grip side of the socket.

[griffindm]

Sorry to dredge this (somewhat) older post back up, but I'm studying for the ref exam (after an absence of a decade or so), and I have a question (not in the study guide) that I cannot find the specific instruction in the rules regarding annulment of a touch in epee where the wires inside the guard are broken.

What I see is:

t.67 2. The Referee must take note of possible failures of the electrical equipment and must annul the last touch registered in the following circumstances:
(b) If a touch properly made by the competitor against whom the touch was registered does not cause the apparatus to register a touch;

and

t.68 3. The Referee must also apply the following rules regarding the annulment of touches:
(c) With these tests, one is trying only to establish whether there is material possibility of a mistake in the judgement as a result of a fault. The location of this fault in the electrical equipment, including that of either of the fencers, is unimportant in reaching a decision.

In terms of the legality of the wire position (not specifically noted as a condition for not annulling the touch, but applicable in principle), I see:

m.5 (Guard) 2. Inside the guard there must be a cushion (padding) ...
The connections must be so arranged that it is impossible for the fencer to break or make contacts while fencing.

I personally had a critical touch annulled (in my favor) in the Mid-Atlantic epee sectionals in the early 1980's. I noted that there was a specific change in the rules within the next year or two that made the wires inside the guard the responsibility of the fencer, and that broken wires would no longer annul a touch scored on that fencer.

Was that wording dropped or re-worded in such a way that the application is now basically an interpretation of a generic rule, such that you cannot find it specifically in the rule book?

Thanks,

Dave G.

[fencerbill]

There used to be specific instructions in the Referee's handbook about not annulling a touch if the wires were broken inside the guard. I looked for it and could not find it in the referees handbook now on the FOC site.

Dan DeChaine may say that the wires must be on the outside of the socket but I challenge him to justify it by anything in writing.

Except for the general "must not be able to make or break connections." And I don't see where specifying the wires must be on the outside of the socket prevents the clever fencer from doing it if he wants to.

Wires on the outside of the socket does not turn night into day.

You do what you think best. And I wouldn't card because the wires are on the inside of the socket.