verbal abuse

[lurkerdad]

Slightly more on topic, though: I'm not entirely convinced that the really young Y events are even a good idea, and it's partly because it's encouraging this type of competitiveness among their coaches and therefore among the fencers as well. The abuse theme just brings this home: in many cases we're talking about students who are young enough that they're not even comfortable recognizing whether their coach's more or less aggressive style is good or bad for them. Some people on here have said that they find aggressive coaches are good for them; when we're talking about a 10-year old, though, it's much harder to get such self-perception. And when the coaches are allowed to make competitors out of students who very often are fencing at a level where half of the actions are random and uncontrolled, then everyone is frustrated: the coach because their student is losing or not fencing as well as they "should", the student because they're not necessarily even capable of producing the changes the coach is trying to get during the bout, the parents because they see their child not succeeding, or because they are not happy with the coaching, and the refs because we have to watch the whole mess and make sure everyone gets home whole at the end of the day.

Just my thoughts.

Anna

Just my personal experience on this, but serious fencing even at such a young age (lessons at 8, competing at 9) has worked out pretty well for my kid. It has enabled him to focus a lot better on everything, whether school-related, fencing-related or what-not.

His coach is actually pretty easygoing and quiet -- right from the start, the kid has been his own strongest driver/critic, just because he so fiercely competitive by nature. He just hates to lose. After awhile though, fencing helped him to understand the life lesson early that even if you're pretty good, you can't win all the time. Now he sees that, whether he wins or not, each competition is just a step in a learning process.

(Now if only there were only enough hours in the day to do everything....)

[Allen Evans]

The difference in this mix is when the nine year old who hates to lose is paired with a coach that doesn't teach the lessons your child is learning, but instead, encourages and reinforces destructive behavior in competition.

AE

[Allen Evans]

Question: Is there (and, if not, should there be) a Code of Ethics for coaches who coach at USFA sanctioned events or coach at USFA member clubs? Other (possibly more practical) approaches?

There is a more "practical" approach. In those occasions when the coach is yelling or shouting abuse at their student, the referee can pull a card. I don't see it happen often enough.

AE

[epee rocks]

Yea, I hate coachs who act like that. Luckly, my coach never dose. I was once down 9-2 in a bout (my first tourtament, actually) and it was the third period. My coach, instead of biteing my head off, told me what to do. I came back those 7 points and one in the sudden death.

[bunbury]

Bottom line is, the coaches need to get paid. If you don't like their mentality/coaching philosophy/what have you, then leave. Find a new coach. Coming to Fence.Net and crying about it won't change anything, but if everyone in the club leaves because the guy is a nutcase, then I'm sure he'll take the hint.

[Mo]

Bottom line is, the coaches need to get paid. If you don't like their mentality/coaching philosophy/what have you, then leave. Find a new coach. Coming to Fence.Net and crying about it won't change anything, but if everyone in the club leaves because the guy is a nutcase, then I'm sure he'll take the hint.

This is easier said than done. When a club has a huge base and is the only place in town, if a person wants to move, they can't without changing locations ie MOVING.
There are many fencers and parents trying to change things in more than one club. The issue isn't take it or leave it, it is, how can we work together.
Fortunately, our family has about 8 months left of this crap and then the daughter is off to college.
I am sure things will get better there.
The Momster

[OMCEPKEN]

If you are fortunate you have a good coach, and would find another one if abusive towards your child. Not everyone is in the same position, but the good news is that there are many good coaches around.

[Mo]

D'awwww shucks.
I've been around educators of one sort or another all my life, and one of the things I've learned that has helped me out in many endeavors is that the really great ones don't have to be strict, because their students don't want to act up much in the first place. I think of it as "removing the occasion of sin."

Exactly.
My kids grew up with the "laugh rule." If they could concoct some outrageous story about why they did what they did, they were forgiven. It started when they were very young. As soon as they learned not to run out into the street that was when the laugh rule began.
What did that teach them?
They could make mistakes. Having them explain why they tried the experiment of tying the tennis ball to the ceiling fan so the dog would get more exercise was pretty funny.
They were encoraged to try new things.
They developed a heck of a vocabulary.
It stopped the parents against the kids thing right away.
So many parents cannot negotiate with their kids, they always have to be right, they always have to win. That did not happen in our house. It was coexistence.
That can work well in a coaching situation too. I haven't found that in our club though. We sneak around the iron clad idiotic laws when we have to and complain loudly when there is outright disrespect to our kid. We were flattered to find out from some parents on the other side of the country that my hub and I were the most difficult parents in fencing!! YEEEHAW

The Momster