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RenegadeStorm88 · 09-24-2007, 10:28 PM

What are the Advantages and drawbacks of each of these handles?

Purple Fencer · 09-24-2007, 10:41 PM

Depends on the weapon.

French promotes fingertip control (which is why it's traditional to start noobs on a French), pistol allows for a greater range of movement of the blade -- especially for infighting and extreme angulations of the weapon. Pistols also allowed for an easier flick back when the flick was common.

French has, therefore, no real advantage in foil....you can grip it by the pommel and get extra reach, but that doesn't do anything in foil...in EPEE however, that extra reach adds up to a couple of 10ths fo a second in the timing...possibly the difference between a solo light and a double.

RenegadeStorm88 · 09-24-2007, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

.possibly the difference between a solo light and a double.

Come again? sorry im VERY new to this

lefty_monster · 09-24-2007, 10:50 PM

In electric fencing: your light comes on when you hit the opponent. And same goes for them.

In electric epee: One light=one touch. Both lights=a touch for each fencer aka double-touch. (Right-of-way in foil fixes this.)

If you're behind, you do not want a double-touch. Why? Because it gets your opponent closer to winning and doesn't help your situation at all.

RenegadeStorm88 · 09-24-2007, 10:51 PM

AH! i see

Goldgar · 09-25-2007, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

pistol allows for a greater range of movement of the blade -- especially for infighting and extreme angulations of the weapon.

I'm not sure I follow this. Why do you say that? I find that I can get more extreme angulations with a French than with a pistol grip, because it's easier to let go with my smaller fingers and pivot the handle.

mrbiggs · 09-25-2007, 12:21 AM

Use a pistol grip.

If you fence epee, there's also the option of holding a French grip by the end of the grip for extra reach. This is called "pommeling" and is something you should discuss with your coach if you're interested. It's fairly common, but requires a slightly different fencing style than epee with a pistol grip.

OROD · 09-25-2007, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldgar

I'm not sure I follow this. Why do you say that? I find that I can get more extreme angulations with a French than with a pistol grip, because it's easier to let go with my smaller fingers and pivot the handle.

And how do you plan on keeping the foil in your hand if you're constantly letting go of it with half your fingers?

.

lefty_monster · 09-25-2007, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OROD

And how do you plan on keeping the foil in your hand if you're constantly letting go of it with half your fingers?

.

That's why the wire's there, DUH.

Atreus · 09-25-2007, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RenegadeStorm88

What are the Advantages and drawbacks of each of these handles?

I had the same question when i started half an year ago. All it took was one training session with pistol grip to convince me to go with it. It's just so much more confortable.

piste off · 09-25-2007, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldgar

I'm not sure I follow this. Why do you say that? I find that I can get more extreme angulations with a French than with a pistol grip, because it's easier to let go with my smaller fingers and pivot the handle.

Agreed. One of the advantages of a French grip is the ability for angulations.

I am one of the idiots that can't make up his mind and constantly goes back and forth, much to the detriment of my fencing and wallet. But I know both pretty well and they can be dramatically different games IMHO. So to me a lot of the choice depends on your style and fencing characteristics.

If you fence epee, pick one and stay with it (do not do what I do, switching is a disease). If you fence foil, pistol is preferred.

Rick

samster · 10-01-2007, 11:46 AM

I'm also new, but at this point it seems to me like a decision largely based on personal preference, with most prefering pistol grips. I prefer French so far because it hurts my hand less. However, I'm told that I just need to find myself the right pistol grip shape. Thus, I remain open minded to possibilities.

Carlos37 · 10-01-2007, 12:04 PM

I started with grip like everyone at my club but I switched to french cause it owns.You need to have a tough forearm and hand for it though

alvin · 10-01-2007, 06:25 PM

The other advantage to French in Epee is that it causes your hand to present a lower profile -- if you have a large hand, a pistol grip will allow your little finger to extend beyond the bell guard, making it a good target. With a French grip, you can keep your entire hand inside the bell guard.

Overall, pistol grips will give you more strength of control at a trade-off for a small loss of flexibility.

There are many different types of pistols - you will eventually find one that feels right.

IMO, fencers should start learning with the pistol, because there is just too much to learn as a beginner. Once you have the basics down, then you should move to the French, to refine and perfect your point work. Clubs won't do this, partly because of tradition but mostly due to the extra expense of fitting pistols to hands -- French are one size fits all, so that makes them cheaper when stocking the club's weapon rack.

I don't think switching from one to the other is an issue. Learn to be comfortable with both. If you're having a bad day with one, switching to the other can give you the mental nudge you need to get re-focused.

And, if you've got the money to spare, get an Italian and learn to use it. Each grip has its own technique and understanding the differences will go a long way in teaching you to understand the strengths and weaknesses of your own personal style.

veeco · 10-01-2007, 07:01 PM

Very few people who use a pistol actually use properly. They hold it too tight, and cramp their hands on it. That's also why clubs start people with French.

Another additional benefit of the French grip is that even if it is held too tight, the French grip will not be as dangerous as the pistol grip is. In the event of a broken blade, it's easier to "let" go of the French grip than it is of the pistol, which can lead to perforated lungs and other nasties...

Oh, and fencing with a pistol gives you cancer. Really.

OROD · 10-01-2007, 08:05 PM

I think it's funny that some people still use French grips in foil. Actually, just this Sunday (at a C-and-over event) there was one fencer, not only using a French grip, but he was always posting with it. Honestly, I just couldnt figure out why... unless all he wanted to do was counter-attack...

.

FoilyDeath · 10-01-2007, 11:14 PM

There are some very good foil fencers out there who use French grips in foil, although I agree that I do find it rather bizarre, and I can't name any successful international level fencers who do. I can definitely think or one or two in the US/UK circuits though off the top of my head. Mostly, I think its used for the extra distance advantage, but I don't fence with the thing so I really don't know.