Could I Actually Have Miswired 3 Foils?

[HDG]

Now I'm no armorer, but I can put together a foil just fine, however I just wired 3 foils, all of which are giving me white lights when I beat another blade. This is on my favero test box; I haven't had them to the club yet -- I'd be mortified to have three weapons fail on-strip.

Equipment-wise, it's LP GT points on StM FIE blades. I believe Craig supplies TwisterFencing's foil wires with LP points (sweet wire by the way).

The barrels are good and tight, but not so much so that I've cracked them. Tips & barrels are all nice and clean. Good connection at the plug. No whites when I flex the blade.

I'm feeling exceedingly dense, what am I missing?

[Purple Fencer]

Kinda hard to miswire a foil...they either work or they don't...what you're describing sounds like something's loose...grip, socket connection....even if the barrel FEELS finger tight, throw a wrench on it and give it a tug...it may be loose enough for the CIRCUIT to pick up on it.

possble it's also a break in the base of the wire cup....

[twisterfencing]

HDG

Thanks for the words on the wire.

Finally a question that is not grip,bag,shoe laces,colored jackets related.

Quick question; when you were pulling the wire after you had tightened the barrel, did you notice or feel that you had to give an extra hard tug to get it through so that the cup would seat in the barrel?

There is a specific reason for this question.

Gary Spruill

Originally Posted by HDG

Now I'm no armorer, but I can put together a foil just fine, however I just wired 3 foils, all of which are giving me white lights when I beat another blade. This is on my favero test box; I haven't had them to the club yet -- I'd be mortified to have three weapons fail on-strip.

Equipment-wise, it's LP GT points on StM FIE blades. I believe Craig supplies TwisterFencing's foil wires with LP points (sweet wire by the way).

The barrels are good and tight, but not so much so that I've cracked them. Tips & barrels are all nice and clean. Good connection at the plug. No whites when I flex the blade.

I'm feeling exceedingly dense, what am I missing?

[HDG]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Kinda hard to miswire a foil...they either work or they don't...what you're describing sounds like something's loose...grip, socket connection....even if the barrel FEELS finger tight, throw a wrench on it and give it a tug...it may be loose enough for the CIRCUIT to pick up on it.

Wrench-tightened from the start. Vice grip on the blade, adjustbable wrench on the flats.

Originally Posted by twisterfencing

HDG

Thanks for the words on the wire.

Quick question; when you were pulling the wire after you had tightened the barrel, did you notice or feel that you had to give an extra hard tug to get it through so that the cup would seat in the barrel?

Nope it went in smoothly, and I checked to see that it was properly seated with my point setter.

[twisterfencing]

HDG,

Was looking to see if by chance the wire got nicked/cut when pulling the wire. My wire is triple insulated, yet cannot withstand a sharp channel at the tip end.

OK, now lets do some quick tests to see whats up.

Test #1

Your going to need an analog ohm meter, hopefully with a RX1 factor.
Disassemble the weapon, remove grip, connector, guard/pad. You now have the blade with the tip still assembled and a loose wire on the other end.

Take the ohm meter, place the red line on the blade. Now take the black line and place it on the wire. Your meter will automaticly give a reading of about 1/2 ohm. Here comes the trick, holding all this together, push the tip down. If the meter goes off (no reading) this is good/ this is suppose to happen. If it does not, here is what I want you to look for:

Did you burn the insulation off the wire and sand it down to bright and shinny copper? Reminder: you have 3 seperate insulations on this wire. If you hooked it to your connector not doing this process, this will give you a white light.

Get back with me either on this format or PM me and we will figure it out together.

Gary Spruill

Originally Posted by HDG

Wrench-tightened from the start. Vice grip on the blade, adjustbable wrench on the flats.



Nope it went in smoothly, and I checked to see that it was properly seated with my point setter.

[HDG]

Gary,
I'm setting up your test; I have been doing some minor tests, and have found that just tapping (and I do mean tapping, nothing hard) the tip on a solid surface is giving me a light.

Static testing (plug it in, check; depress tip, check; weights, check) has all been fine; it's only with impact that I'm getting anything odd...

[twisterfencing]

Hmmmm,,,

There is a common thread here if all three of them are doing the same thing.

Lets shift gears and look at something totally diffrent.

Lets check the body cord.

Mainly the B & C lines. Make sure it has a great connection since this is where the impact is going to be coming from when you hit.

If its not the body cord, I have 2 or more suggestions to go through if your willing.

Gary Spruill

Originally Posted by HDG

Gary,
I'm setting up your test; I have been doing some minor tests, and have found that just tapping (and I do mean tapping, nothing hard) the tip on a solid surface is giving me a light.

Static testing (plug it in, check; depress tip, check; weights, check) has all been fine; it's only with impact that I'm getting anything odd...

[HDG]

Got your PM, will definitely keep your offer in mind.
Ran test 1, all three passed.
Re-assembled, switched body cords, no change.

Are there any peculiarities about the favero tester I haven't picked up on before? Is it more sensitive than a scoring machine?

[twisterfencing]

HDG

I'm bad,

I forgot you were testing this on a favero tester.

Need to ask, are you seeing a white, or yellow light when you hit the table with the blade?

Is your favero test box all metal, or is it a yellow body?

Gary Spruill

Originally Posted by HDG

Got your PM, will definitely keep your offer in mind.
Ran test 1, all three passed.
Re-assembled, switched body cords, no change.

Are there any peculiarities about the favero tester I haven't picked up on before? Is it more sensitive than a scoring machine?

[HDG]

I probably ought to have included this in my initial post, it's the metal box with red, green and two yellow, micro-break lights. I've been getting yellows.

I have just plugged in a verified weapon, and it's doing basically the same thing.

Me =

[twisterfencing]

HDG,

That all metal favero tester is super senative.

Glad you got it all worked out.

Your good to go.


Thanks

Gary Spruill

Originally Posted by HDG

I probably ought to have included this in my initial post, it's the metal box with red, green and two yellow, micro-break lights. I've been getting yellows.

I have just plugged in a verified weapon, and it's doing basically the same thing.

Me =

[brtech]

Well, I think you have a problem.

A good point on a well assembled blade needs to be wacked fairly hard to get a yellow light on a favero. If a light tap is causing a yellow, there is a problem.

Every foil WILL show a yellow flash with a hard enough wack.

[the ancient one]

I have noted in some cases that the back of the tang that should be contacting the guard is pretty well coated with excess blade coloring and other leftover manufacturing gunk, for example old dry lard from the thread cutting operation.

It may pay off to get a file and clean up prior to reassembly.

The shock wave made by a beat and transmitted down the blade can be enough to open up the return path for a small fraction of a second.

The problem is more likely to occur with a french grip or a painted pistol grip.

Simple test: borrow a saber mask cord and clip to the blade and edge of the guard (or equivalent with a bare wire) and see if the intermittent open goes away.

More likely the wire, point etc.. As usual, I am mentioning the long-shot.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by brtech

Well, I think you have a problem.

A good point on a well assembled blade needs to be wacked fairly hard to get a yellow light on a favero. If a light tap is causing a yellow, there is a problem.

Every foil WILL show a yellow flash with a hard enough wack.

I can't get to the club tonight, but I will try them out on a proper scoring machine Thursday. Hopefully Twister is right, but if you are right, based on the previous traffic, do you think I'm looking at a rewire (or 3)?

[brtech]

I would say that there is a problem with the tips. If these are all new tips, then I'm pretty mystified.

Things that only show yellow lights would be hard to find on a real machine. It gets the kinds of problems that start with a fencer getting REALLY unhappy because his weapon seems to always test okay, but then he gets an intermittent white light while fencing.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by brtech

I would say that there is a problem with the tips. If these are all new tips, then I'm pretty mystified.

Things that only show yellow lights would be hard to find on a real machine. It gets the kinds of problems that start with a fencer getting REALLY unhappy because his weapon seems to always test okay, but then he gets an intermittent white light while fencing.

That's what I feared I was looking at...

[carsen82]

Our club has the same tester, and it's definetly more sensitive than our actual score box. We have several weapons that work great when fencing with them, but set off lights for me when plugged into the tester. It also has a tendency to go off when the blade is hit against a hard object (our wooden equipment box) but not when struck against my foot.

[brtech]

The Favero tester is more sensitive. That's why nearly every hard core armorer carries one with them, usually on a belt clip so it's always near. It's a really wonderful tool. However, you have to learn to interpret what it is telling you. It WILL tell you that you have an intermittent connection that is sensitive to being hit. You have to learn how hard the hit can be before it's indicating a problem that can be seen on the strip. Every foil will show a yellow light flash if you hit it hard enough, or at the right place.

My own technique is to wack the blade on the edge of a table in the middle of the blade. I can't describe how hard I wack it accurately, but it's more than gentle and less than "hard". If I can get a yellow light, I usually work on it to get rid of it.

What HDG is reporting is a light tap on the barrel is causing a yellow light. I'm interpreting that as quite light, and I don't think that should normally cause a yellow light on a Favero tester. I don't have a blade with an LP point home (there are some at the club) so I can't try that exact test, but I'm suspicious.
I'd be pretty surprised if every LP point did that, but these are reported to be new points.

Sometimes, what works for me is matching tips and barrels. I have a tin of used, but good condition tips. If everything else checks out, including a thorough examination, cleaning and tugging on the original tip, I will try switching to another tip. Sometimes, that's what it takes.
That would be very uncommon to be the problem with new points. VERY uncommon.

[HDG]

I [think] I remember, but couldn't find, a discussion here about some problem with the threads on StMs being too long for LP barrels, but I figure that would cause a continuous problem.

These are indeed new points,barrels, etc. purchased here about two weeks ago. I have extra tips; I will try swapping them. Ultimately, though, I guess the worst case scenario is just damaged wires up near the threads.

[Craig]

Did you try them out on a buzz box or on the scoring machine?

Craig