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Old 09-18-2007, 06:04 AM   #1
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Academic Fencing via a travel grant?

Hello everyone!

My name is Vincent, and I am a 21-year-old college student in Los Angeles, CA. I came across this forum while doing research for a travel fellowship I am applying for called the Watson Fellowship. Basically I am competing for a yearlong grant to travel anywhere outside the United States to do a personal project of my own choosing.

I have been very passionate about martial arts ever since I began training in Shotokan Karate three years ago. I have since then also picked up a little bit of Kokikai Aikido. I am interested in learning about martial arts around the world, not only for my own training enrichment, but more importantly to understand how they affect the various people who practice martial arts not only as a sport but as a lifelong spiritual, intellectual, and philosophical endeavor. Through browsing the various martial arts around the world, I came across the term "academic (mensur) fencing", and I am interested in learning more about it, perhaps even through the Watson.

Since I have the opportunity to go anywhere I choose, it would be possible for me to go to study mensur fencing for several months. I have come to ask for the help of the international fencing community in this pursuit. I appreciate any advice, references, warnings, or suggestions you may have for me. Thank you!

Best Wishes,
-Vincent
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:05 AM   #2
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My spontaneous reply to you will be that if you're interested in schlager/mensur this forum may not quite be what you're looking for. Most of us here are interested in sport/olympic fencing.

I know there are some forum members here that are interested in mensur. I'm sure they will post back with good information. Best of luck!
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:57 AM   #3
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You'll definitely need to travel, as the only place mensur happens that I know of is Germany.
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:35 AM   #4
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You'll definitely need to travel, as the only place mensur happens that I know of is Germany.
and unless they have changed a great deal you can not just show up and get a few lessons.
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Old 09-18-2007, 01:08 PM   #5
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This might be enlightening as to the difficulty you might have:http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...ghlight=mensur
and I would agree that lessons might also be hard to come by...just be sure you wear your goggles!
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Old 09-18-2007, 02:19 PM   #6
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A brief cover myself statement: What these guys do is not fencing by any other group's definition. It is a highly stylized, coming-of-age, rite-of-manhood RITUAL. Naturally no one wants to be hurt, but, as with the old duel of honor, the critical point is being there, going through with it and not running, dodging or flinching. The whole point is proving you can stand your ground even when faced with pain or injury.

The central focus is not being a keener fencer than your opponent. In many groups, there are only 2-4 moves even allowed.

Don't think sport encounter where the point is to WIN.

Don't think battlefield combat where the point is to SURVIVE.

Think closer to a Germanic machismo ritual to prove what you can face and stand up to. (Something between a Souix Sun Ritual and the running of the bulls in Pamplona).

You'll be restricted to Germany and Austria for the most part, although I am told you can find a few groups in some of the Balkan States, perhaps Poland and/or Switzerland (due to long-time German populations within their current borders).

Chris Amberger would be a good person to talk to. Beyond that, if you work the translations, I'd try making contacts via these sites:

paukarztseminar

http://www.l-brandenburg.de/sites/15_Unsere-Sicht.htm

Prager Burschenschaft Arminia

Couleurstudentische Informationen

They are just places I'd start. Lessons are offered (they aren't born with this skill), but I believe you would have to actually join one of the fraternities to take the lessons.

My take is also that, with the spread of this information on the Internet, anyone you contact from one of these fraternities will likely have already had it up to here with various dilletantes from across the plant (I'm not suggesting you are) rushing up to them and asking to learn "real' fencing.
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Old 09-18-2007, 03:34 PM   #7
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If what schlager7 said is true, you might want to examine what kind of fencing you want to be studying. You said you're into martial arts, so maybe you need to decide which form of fencing fits that mold the best? If mensur fencing is a ritual, then maybe you should consider theatrical, recreational or olympic fencing. (Or SCA. I don't know what they do.)

On the other hand, go ahead and study mensur fencing and you can go to Germany on a grant!
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Old 09-18-2007, 04:41 PM   #8
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No grant sponsoring agency is going to underwrite someone doing this. A before-and-after in their annual report in which you have a grievous scar in the second photo -- that they paid for -- isn't going to go down well with their donors.
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Old 09-19-2007, 02:04 AM   #9
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No grant sponsoring agency is going to underwrite someone doing this. A before-and-after in their annual report in which you have a grievous scar in the second photo -- that they paid for -- isn't going to go down well with their donors.
Considering the Watson Fellowship routinely funds projects such as studying hair braiding around the world or researching street ball in South America, you never no what they might fund. One of my friends thought the way to win a Watson would be to just think of the weirdest project you could think of and propose it. He ended up winning a Watson Fellowship
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Old 09-21-2007, 03:47 AM   #10
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I think I am having some trouble posting a reply to my thread. To summarize, thank you all very much for your comments, I will take some time to explore the subject more. My actual reply was quite a bit longer but I'm suspecting that it's been posted somewhere that I just can't see? Consider this a test post I suppose...
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