Parent's Guide to Fencing

[Phincer]

Originally Posted by bbugiii

Mo,
I hope that the pride we all take in your daughter's talent and positive representation of our country offer some measure of comfort when times are truely bad. BBugiii's Mom

Ditto on that. I've never seen (in the few times I've been able to watch her) and haven't ever heard of your lovely daughter presenting anything but a positive image for US Fencing.

[Phincer]

Originally Posted by Mo

This fall has been very difficult, the kiddo is applying to college, this year's travel schedule is insane, she will be leaving homefor college in a year, and all she does is get on airplanes and travel.
She has a boyfriend and a home life that gets neglected.
For what?
A shot at the Olympics where a ref can determine a bout?
The Olympics are a simple DE format. You have to go through years of crap and for what? Three minutes and you're out? I don't think it is worth it, financially or emotionally, but my kid does. So we support her.
The Momster

There has to be a way to put this very true statement into a blanket cautionary statement for new fencing parents. Mo is so right on every level. Even a moderately determined, if not altogether successful fencer's parents will go through this although perhaps not at an international level.

If you compete in the NACs, that's at least three or four tournaments to fly to per year, plus your divisional and sectional tournaments. If your club holds tournaments, you'll be expected to be there and fence. Then there's summer nationals. Training camps. In our case, and many of our friends cases, that's 1-2 tournaments per month, if not more. Most of those are either NACs or sectional events two-three hours away. Add three to five weeks of 'camps' per year. Plus equipment. Uniforms and shoes.

One DE hose-up and you're done! And the yard work still isn't done!

At least our refs don't have that "international" reputation!

[JMcC]

Originally Posted by Mo

A shot at the Olympics where a ref can determine a bout?
The Olympics are a simple DE format. You have to go through years of crap and for what? Three minutes and you're out?
I don't think it is worth it, financially or emotionally, but my kid does. So we support her.
The Momster

Please! In all fairness, there's a LOT more to participating in the Olympics than showing up at the strip and fencing for three minutes. If it were, nobody would go.

There's the making of the team in the first place. Joining the members of all the other national teams from your country. The travel. Meeting people and the teams from all over the world. The ceremonies. Having an experience that only a small number of people anywhere will ever have. The list goes on...

[Mo]

Originally Posted by JMcC

Please! In all fairness, there's a LOT more to participating in the Olympics than showing up at the strip and fencing for three minutes. If it were, nobody would go.

There's the making of the team in the first place. Joining the members of all the other national teams from your country. The travel. Meeting people and the teams from all over the world. The ceremonies. Having an experience that only a small number of people anywhere will ever have. The list goes on...

There needs to be a plus column and a minus column.
You can meet people from all over the world in World Championships too. There are more countries represented and more fencers. It is a more difficult meet.
The travel gets odious and that is just not fly!!! Here is this season's WS schedule between now and the Olympics:

Senior World Championships plus a training camp in Tauberbishofheim. Leave Sept 21 get back October 6.
November 30-December 6 National Training Camp, Colorado Springs, Colorado
December 7-9 NAC Div 1 Richmond, Virginia
December 26-Jan. 1 National Training Camp, Portland Oregon
January 18-21 NAC Div 1/Junior, Atlanta, Georgia
Feb 2-3 Senior World Cup London, England
Feb 4-7 Training Camp Orleans, France
Feb 8-10 Senior Grand Prix Orleans, France
Feb 22-23 Senior World Cup, Budapest Hungary
March 14-16 Senior Grand Prix, Lamezia-Terme, Italy
March 17-20 Training Camp, Lamezia-Terme, Italy
March 21-23 Senior Grand Prix, Alger, Algeria
Mid April, Junior World Championships, Cantania, Italy
April 25-28 Division 1 National Championships, Portland Oregon
May 3-4 Senior World Cup, Klagenfurt Austria
May 5-9 National Training Camp, Gand Belgium
May 10-11 Senior World Cup, Gand Belgium
May 24-25 Senior World Cup, Hanoi, Viet Nam
May 26-29 National Training Camp Tianjin, China
May 30- June 1 Senior Grand Prix, Tianjin, China
June 15-16 Senior World Cup, Havana, Cuba
June 20-22 Grand Prix Las Vegas, Nevada
July 16-24 National Training Camp, Portland Oregon
August 8-18 Olympic Games…if they survive...


Then there is the marketing strategy that NBC has for the Olympics, which by the way is not supposed to be called an "Athletic Event" but is now a "pop culture" event.

“We here at NBC Olympics spent a lot of time discussing how to maintain relevance with young people,” said Brett Goodman, vice president of marketing and business development for the organization.
“The Olympics to us is very much a pop culture event. I despise when people refer to it as a ‘sporting event,’” he added. “It’s an event. It’s so much more than the actual field of play. People from around the entire world are in one place for two weeks. The pop culture element is terrific for the Games.”

This is the link to the entire article: http://www.theheraldbulletin.com/hom...ces_printstory

Nice call, Brett! I wonder if he was always chosen last for dodgeball as a kid, and that's why he doesn't consider all the sweat and toil and sacrifice leading up to an Olympic berth as an athletic accomplishment.

Is my personal opinion of the Olympics tainted?? HELL YES!!!!!!

The MOMSTER!!!!!!!!!!

[Mo]

Phincer, You are my hero!! You see the big picture.
Mwah!
The Momster

Originally Posted by Phincer

There has to be a way to put this very true statement into a blanket cautionary statement for new fencing parents. Mo is so right on every level. Even a moderately determined, if not altogether successful fencer's parents will go through this although perhaps not at an international level.

If you compete in the NACs, that's at least three or four tournaments to fly to per year, plus your divisional and sectional tournaments. If your club holds tournaments, you'll be expected to be there and fence. Then there's summer nationals. Training camps. In our case, and many of our friends cases, that's 1-2 tournaments per month, if not more. Most of those are either NACs or sectional events two-three hours away. Add three to five weeks of 'camps' per year. Plus equipment. Uniforms and shoes.

One DE hose-up and you're done! And the yard work still isn't done!

At least our refs don't have that "international" reputation!

[JMcC]

Originally Posted by Mo

There needs to be a plus column and a minus column...
Is my personal opinion of the Olympics tainted?? HELL YES!!!!!!
The MOMSTER!!!!!!!!!!

If it's that odious, why not just bow out of the process?

[Mo]

Originally Posted by JMcC

If it's that odious, why not just bow out of the process?

"I don't think it is worth it, financially or emotionally, but my kid does. So we support her.
The Momster"
You had this quote in your post, try reading it.
A person does amazing things for their kids every parent does.
This is supposed to be a place to share concerns, do only your concerns count? Does only your opinion count?

That's why.
The Momster

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Originally Posted by JMcC

If it's that odious, why not just bow out of the process?

In some ways, it's a lot like catching a ride on a freight train. When it's just leaving the yard, you look down at the ground, and say: "What the heck, if the car is full of hobos, winos and Texas Cheerleader Parents, I'll just jump out!"

Then, a little while later, you find out the car is indeed full of people who don't always have your best interest at heart, but now, even though you aren't satisfied with your cattle-car-mates, and have some doubts about the destination, you look down at the cactus-covered ground flashing by, and it's almost impossible to jump.

Especially when your kid ends up being really, really good at riding a rail car.

There are many aspects about international fencing that are indeed enjoyable. It can be a great experience to watch your kid/significant other do well against the world's best. We've been to 18 countries in the past several years...and probably wouldn't have visited any of them if not for fencing. (Plovdiv, Bulgaria...not going back anytime soon. Torino, Italy is a whole different story!)

When it comes to preparing an athlete for the Olympics, though, the coaching, the club, the practice facilities, the knee and ankles, the motivations, the family, the politics, the boyfriend/girlfriend, the schoolwork, the checkbook...all have to be in extremely close tolerances alignment. If any of those are grinding metal, the accumulating shavings can wreck the athletic engine.

The thing that is so different about the Olympics is the huge added level of pressure on the athlete and the family. It's not that different of a meet from the World Championships held every year, but the expectations and the mania that builds up in coaches and administrators and governing bodies and media outlets just turns it into a pressure-cooker for the participants.

Sure, you can sniff and say the athletes are living everyone's dream...but if you look at a travel schedule like Mo posted, and have travel/training/school/financial situations that are less than ideal...it sometimes can seem like more of a nightmare.

But hey, it's the Olympics, isn't it? And that cactus in the railbed looks very painful.

[Zilverzmurfen]

Originally Posted by Mo

<extensive travel schedule>

Oh my! She's almost never at home. How does that work with school?

And also, how on earth can you afford all those trips/stays?!

[Mo]

Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen

Oh my! She's almost never at home. How does that work with school?

And also, how on earth can you afford all those trips/stays?!

She IS almost never home. This year will be the worst by far.
The USFA has performance grants and the USOC has a stipend for top fencers. There is also money from the US Saber Squad funds to cover some of it too.
This is the first year there has been money available enough to come close to paying her expenses. My husband or I always go on her trips. We just don't feel comfortable not being there for her.
We have been pretty broke for the past four years. My inlaws, bless their generous hearts, have helped us out a great deal during her career.
For school, it is really hard for her. She has to use her time very wisely. She takes correspondence classes from Duke University's high school program, has a math tutor who actually lives in New Hampshire, she used to live here and now they use a video camera on the puter and skype. She has an EXCELLENT Spanish tutor who lives here.
The kid has more self discipline than anyone I've ever seen.
The funny thing is that college will actually be a break for her. She won't be traveling overseas for a while, she will have actual classes she gets to attend and she will have help on the road when they do travel to NCAA and NAC meets.
One more year.
The Momster

[dcmdale]

Originally Posted by Mo

"I don't think it is worth it, financially or emotionally, but my kid does. So we support her.
The Momster"

Quoting from the Parent's Manual again, are we? Sometimes that manual can be a royal pain!

I hope you are keeping a diary. Could be a best seller. Might help stave off the creditors. (Yes, I realize the absurdity of that statement with the schedule you have. ) Hang in there.

[Mo]

Originally Posted by dcmdale

Quoting from the Parent's Manual again, are we? Sometimes that manual can be a royal pain!

I hope you are keeping a diary. Could be a best seller. Might help stave off the creditors. (Yes, I realize the absurdity of that statement with the schedule you have. ) Hang in there.

And..... I feel a lot better now.

Going on the first biggie trip of the year is daunting.
The kiddo's passport was the first to show up, my hubs and mine came this morning with our Russian Visa in it.
The packing is almost done.
Our logistics are being sorted out... I am excited about seeing all the kids who are mostly great kids. The men's saber team watches out for the women's saber team. That part of it is lovely.
My buddys will be there. My husband gets to come too!! Thanks to his mom.
The college application is done and ready to mail in.
Sometimes too much stuff comes at once and it is just completely overwhelming.
My dogs are beginning to freak because the travel bags are out. Can't have everything.
I appreciate your support. and will try to see the BRIGHT side.
The Momster

[dcmdale]

On TV, they love to show deeply romanticized views of the struggle and heartbreak that individual athletes overcome in getting to the Olympics. They love to talk about the dedication that it takes and the tremendous obstacles that have been conquered.

Make no mistake, Mo's cathartic screams are the reality behind the fairytale. When you listen to stories of runners living in cars because they can't afford both rent and competition, don't think about "My! What dedication!" Instead, think of them sitting in some grungy toilet stall wondering what a clean seat feels like and asking themselves, "Is it really worth this?" When they show pictures of the gymnasts, don't think "How Glamorous!" Look at the scars and think about the implications for their future ability to walk. When they talk about someone coming back from a broken leg, think about the weeks spent in PT crying in pain. Marketing can make almost anything look attractive. It isn't attractive when you are living through it.

Mo's posts reflect what I have heard from the couple of other parents of Olympians that I have known in other sports. When you are living the journey, there is nothing romantic about it. It is a painful grind with an uncertain future and, at best, fleeting recognition as a reward (unless you happen to land on a Wheatie's box--that's a different story). The myth of the Olympics is great, as long as you ignore the reality.

It seems to me that the best thing we can do as a Fencing Parents community is to support Mo as she is going through the fire and give her a little room to vent and tell us what it is really like without people jumping all over her.

It seems to me, that if you really want to support the Olympic spirit and effort, you should either 1) have a kid that is capable of doing what Mo's kid is doing and then live Mo's pain yourself, or, 2) constructively support Mo as she is going through it.

[dcmdale]

Originally Posted by Mo

And..... I feel a lot better now.

I'm glad. My daughter is the same age as yours. When she had been fencing for a couple of years and started bringing home some national hardware, we kind of allowed ourselves to think about "What if?" Our first (and only) international fencing trip kind of left us with a big hole in our bank account for a "I went to Europe for the weekend" experience, a lot of disrespect for the quality of directors outside the U.S. who seem completely incapable of counting to 15 correctly, and a lot of questions.

My daughter didn't come close to Olympic level (at least for next year). (I *had* hoped that either my kid would be really dominant like yours or fall completely short. No serious pursuit of a goal that was temptingly out of reach. Nobody wants to put in the pain and then be the top person to *not* go.) But we do read your posts. It is a good reality check.

Oh... and our pets freak when they see the suitcases out too.

[Phincer]

Originally Posted by dcmdale

On TV, they love to show deeply romanticized views of the struggle and heartbreak that individual athletes overcome in getting to the Olympics. They love to talk about the dedication that it takes and the tremendous obstacles that have been conquered.

Make no mistake, Mo's cathartic screams are the reality behind the fairytale.... .......It seems to me, that if you really want to support the Olympic spirit and effort, you should either 1) have a kid that is capable of doing what Mo's kid is doing and then live Mo's pain yourself, or, 2) constructively support Mo as she is going through it.

Thank you for writing so beautifully what I was trying to get into words in my head all day. Mo is our pal, and we have her back-we may not be able to be there physically but we can support her here. And we'll buy the book when it comes out. And one of these days...margarrrrrrrrita!

[Phincer]

Originally Posted by Mo

The college application is done and ready to mail in.

Wait-that's SINGULAR????? OMG!!!! Count your blessings woman! There's your payoff for all these years of dragging around the world...

Our Dear Fencer is applying to 7 colleges-2 safety schools (no fencing though), 3 stretch schools and 2 that he has a decent shot of getting in. The fees and postage alone would feed a small village for a year. Thank goodness we can print and copy at the house!

But....after reading all your posts....yeah, I think I'll keep what I have. I get tired just thinking about your schedule.

Write us when you can!!! Best of Luck to B!!!!! {{{{}}}}

[pinkelephant]

I'm the person who gets to advise school students on their university applications. Every so often I get someone applying to the States, and it's a nightmare. We don't use school transcripts, so I have to concoct one. We don't have a grade point average, as each course isn't graded per term or semester. We have exams at 18 called A levels, where even a grade E is a pass, and a B is good, so I have to explain that. We have exams at 16 as well, called GCSEs, but the grading system for that is different - pass grades are A*, A, B and C.

Our UK system for college/university applications, though, is much easier than yours. Everybody can apply for up to 5 universities, on one form which is completed online. No multiple form filling, no postage. Bliss!

[Phincer]

Originally Posted by pinkelephant

Our UK system for college/university applications, though, is much easier than yours. Everybody can apply for up to 5 universities, on one form which is completed online. No multiple form filling, no postage. Bliss!

Well, we have the Common Application here-where you fill it out the main applicaiton once and then you can send electronically to the colleges you choose. It does speed up the process, and I do like it.

However-although schools use the Common App-each one of them has a supplement which involves a few more short essays and maybe even a long one, then there's the athletic supplement, and the list goes on if you are applying to certain schools.

Each school wants two teacher recommendations, sent from them personally-no online forms. (the teachers are so nice to complete these-yeah, teachers!)

Then three of the seven mentioned above do NOT use the common app...

I guess that's why God made spreadsheets and Excel...my breakfast room is starting to look like the strategic planning room for a war of some sort....
all we need are monitors on the wal