portable electric foil fencing

[walrus418]

i've been working on a concept for a portable electric fencing device; one that would strap to your waist and make an audible sound when the foil tip is depressed. (because the foil is normally a closed circuit it requires the use of a relay in the design.) i've had some success with the design, but no working prototype yet. anybody have any ideas or suggestions?

[cleghmor]

"sbeen done. Look up Windsor sport fencing. They made a foil epee thingie that sticks to the socket on your weapon. Ok for practice but nothing like a ral box.

cleghmor

[Drew42]

The problem here is that foil fencing requires that your opponent's lame be part of the scoring circuit (for the on and off-target determinations). Unless you make it really complicated (i.e. radio frequency transmissions between the 2 devices for determining hits on target), you're just as well off draging the boxes and cables around. It might work well for epee, but you wouldn't be able to do a cutoff timer to prevent delayed double hits.

Drew42

------------------
"Thank God we are neither boxers nor wrestlers." Aldo Nadi

[darius]

It's still not a bad thing, though.

Small boxes are useful if you don't want to spare the effort to set up the reels, but you still want to work on flicks, etc., where it's sometimes hard to be sure if the tip went off.

darius

[neevel]

Favero is already selling several such devices, including models that do one better by simply being small enough to just fit onto the weapon socket. They cost about US$40.

There is also a device called the Foilmaster (~US$110 per pair from American Fencers' Supply) that can distinguish between on- and off- target hits.

BTW, a relay is a really archaic and poor choice (form factor, greater battery consumption, suffers from mechanical wear). This can all be done using ICs-- none of the myriad such devices that are already out there use relays.

-Dave Neevel

[kro]

Dave,

Do you have any info on the foilmaster the AFS website did not have anything but the price. How big? Have you used it?

thanks,

kro

[neevel]

Nope-- Just know the listing in the catalog and the price. I believe it plugs into the body cord and clips to your back pocket. I recall a posting either here or on r.s.f. by somebody who's used them to the effect that they work as advertised.

-Dave

[MikeHarm]

Re Foilmasters, last I remember the people who made them were selling them direct from their webpage (Sorry don't have the url anymore) for about half what was said here, about $50 US or so a unit. They seemed like a fun toy to get.

Mike

[neevel]

Is that $50 per unit or $50 per pair? The price at American is for a set of two.

-Dave Neevel

[MikeHarm]

That was per unit..back then they were selling at about $80 per unit so it looks like prices have come down a bit.

[kro]

I called A.F.S and for $110 you get ONE unit not TWO. So, that would be over $200 for a useable pair.

I found the website for the manufacturer: http://www.phaedrusltd.co.uk/pages/html/foilmaster.html it takes a few seconds to load.

I ordered two units and with shipping from England it was $105.00 (current exchange). Not sure how long it will take to get here but I will let you know how well they work.

kro

[This message has been edited by kro (edited 12-07-2000).]

[HilandDoug]

I bought 2 little units from Mike Czarnik (sp?) when we hosted Sectionals last season. They were $70 US for the pair. They strap to your wrist for foil, and have a cord comming out of them that plugs into your weapon. I can't remember the brand name, but they are very solid and sturdy. I'll try to find out what they are, and I'll post it.

[Gav]

Guy's its interesting (for me) to see a widget from the UK being discussed. I've just checked out the link. It occurs to me that most of us have at some time built test boxes for our weapons. With a bit of electrical knowledge you could easily develop these to become your own portable scoring devices - especially for epee (because the circuit is so simple). I'd imagine it would be cheaper too.

And a final wee point. The post over here is normally really good. Except now our postal service is about to go on strike so I wouldn't like to guarantee arrival of your stuff this side of Christmas.

[This message has been edited by Gav (edited 12-07-2000).]

[HilandDoug]

The maker of my little foil boxes is Zivkovich. I don't know where to get them other than from the vendor here in the Midwest. Does Zivkovich have a web page that anyone knows about? These are really sturdy boxes, and have held up to quite a lot, including being saoked with soapy water in the car wash (maybe a story for the "funny stories" link). They're pretty much for foil only, because they strap to your wrist, and have a little cord that plugs into your weapon. You need to order either bayonet or 2 prong, and several people in my club use them.

[neevel]

The testers that Mike sells are from Favero--
(go to http://www.favero.com/en/ini-fen.htm to see the full line). Mike got the units he's selling from Branmir Zivkovic ( http://www.zivkovic.com ), who's the U.S. distributor for Favero.

-Dave Neevel

[Tim McMackin]

Well, I use a testing "buzz box" according to a design posted by Barry Tice at www.pointcontrol.com/foilbox.pdf

It does not respond to the presence of a lame, so it essentially turns a foil into an epee, but it is spectacularly useful for testing and use in informal bouts. (you just have to have the judges keep careful eyes on which hits are on and off target)

It would also be feasible to make each lame be attached to a current. That way, when my foil tip is depressed and the circuit is closed between my foil and his lame, my foil would get a charge and set of another light on my box. Logistically, it should be possible, but I will have to think about it. Electronics isn't really my thing.

But do put together one of the buzz boxes by Tice's excellent design; I personally wouldn't pay $100 or therabouts for some of the commercial versions.

Tim

[This message has been edited by Tim McMackin (edited 12-19-2000).]

[Mergs]

Tim,

I constructed one of the devices also, but am having a bit of a problem with the buzzer. What kind did you use (manufacturer and part number)?

Thanks,

Mergs

[Tim McMackin]

Nuts! I threw out the packaging for the buzzer I used. It is a generic Radio Shack 6V mini buzzer. The recipt has the number 2730054 next to it, so that might be the part number.

But I had problems with the buzzer, too. What exactly is happening with yours? For a while, mine wouldn't work because the buzzer breaks the circuit at rapid intervals while it buzzes, setting off the box again, which starts the buzzer again, ad infinitum. I fixed it by adding an LED in parallel with the buzzer. That way, there is a continuous circuit, even when the buzzer is operating. The only problem then is that the LED keeps burning out on mine, so maybe I need to add a resistor in series with the LED.

Hope this helps.

Tim

Originally posted by Mergs:
Tim,

I constructed one of the devices also, but am having a bit of a problem with the buzzer. What kind did you use (manufacturer and part number)?

Thanks,

Mergs

[Mergs]

The problem I am having is that when the unit is turned on I am getting a low-level buzz from the buzzer. It works fine when it is activated (actuated?) but goes back to buzzing, again, low-level. Not sure if I need to increase the resistor that runs parallel to it. I asked Barry about this (who in turn asked his designer, but he didn't know what was going on either. Am forwarding the problem to another electrical type to see what he says.

[kestrel]

I have been experimenting with the Barry's foil box design as well and came up with a couple of improvements you might want to consider:

1) Between the 100K resistor and Pin 2: add a .001 uf in-line capactor and followed by a 1Meg pullup resistor to the 9V rail.

2) Add a .1uf cap to Pin 5
3) Add a .1uf cap between Pins 1 and 8

This will reduce the retriggering effects and give you a one second buzz regardless of the length of time that the tip is depressed.



[This message has been edited by kestrel (edited 12-20-2000).]